New here. CVT issues with an 05.

[Ken]

Hopefully we will know later today. Shipment shows "out for delivery by days end".

[MJR]

Additional photos were added to the last two pages of some of the primary pulley bits taken apart on the '06, link below.

http://www.gotgroceries.net/modules.php?name=gallery2&g2_itemId=986&g2_page=8

Additional photos were added to the last two pages of more CVT parts taken off the '03, link below.

http://www.gotgroceries.net/modules.php?name=gallery2&g2_itemId=1147&g2_page=4

[Ken]

You all are going to like the changes Suzuki has made on the primary assembly (21070-10810). The new stopper bolt is definitely 2MM longer on the part that goes into the carrier slot. The stopper bolt slot is machined all the way to the bearing The previous grove that was in line with the stopper bolt has been moved farther inward and the shield has been redesigned due to the new location of the groove. It is my thought that if bearings and belt don't fail that the CVT will be much more reliable as a result of the changes. Since "inquiring minds want to know", here are the pics that I promised.

[attachment=1]CVT 2 003.jpg

Now for the fun part of putting this beast back together.

[MJR]

Thanks Ken! Looks about what I thought, interesting they just moved the groove up so it no longer meets where the stopper bolt is, that helps.

Did the primary come with the new stopper bolt as per the parts catalog?

[Ken]

Did the primary come with the new stopper bolt as per the parts catalog?

You asked the question as I was logging back on.

I just got on again to let everyone know that the new stopper bolt DOES came with the primary. It is taped to the inside of the box. The box and packaging for the primary is heavy duty. Primary is wrapped in moisture protect paper within a heavy weight sealed bag. They want to protect this gold.

[Dave_J]

It may not seem like much but 2 mm is one heck of a lot of extra surface area.

Ken, does it look like they made the bearings any better?

[MJR]

It may not seem like much but 2 mm is one heck of a lot of extra surface area.

Especially when it no longer intersects a groove. From what I've seen in photos one should still inspect it and possibly replace it over time but that should be much less frequent with the new setup.

[Buffalo]

Thanks for posting those Ken.

If you have not already installed the primary, could you measure the hole the stopper bolt fits into and see if it is elongated. As near as I can tell measuring on the picture, it looks like it is the same dimension front to back as it is side to side. That would put a kink in the theory that room is needed for it to move in and out as the shaft heats and cools. That is unless the hole is significantly larger in diameter than the bolt is.

[cliffyk]

It is plainly a slot, cut with an end-mill:



It has to be a slot because the bearing at one end of a shaft like that has to float--that is why the whole bearing carrier is designed the way it is. This is not something I made up, it is taught in the first week or two of mechanical engineering 101. Take apart a bench grinder, even a cheap Chinese one, you will find one fixed bearing and one floating.

Moving the slot will make a tremendous difference, as will the added contact area. That extra 2mm probably increases the contact by 50 to 75% or more...

[Ken]

It may not seem like much but 2 mm is one heck of a lot of extra surface area.

Ken, does it look like they made the bearings any better?

The only bearing I can see is the big one in the carrier. It is same vendor (NTN) and same #. The outer case that I received shows evidence that it has been previously installed. Every place that a bolt goes, has the marks that a bolt head would leave and every place that a bearing goes shows evidence that a bearing has been installed. There is also ruminants of liquid gasket that was used to seal the case. There are some scuff marks as well but everything looks like it is not worn and should be OK. I just wonder if Suzuki did not pull or reuse the case. A dealer may have repaired a broken bike and returned the case.??? I am going to install the case as I don't think there will be a problem with it, but when I paid for new, I expect new and not previously installed.

[Ken]

Thanks for posting those Ken.

If you have not already installed the primary, could you measure the hole the stopper bolt fits into and see if it is elongated. As near as I can tell measuring on the picture, it looks like it is the same dimension front to back as it is side to side. That would put a kink in the theory that room is needed for it to move in and out as the shaft heats and cools. That is unless the hole is significantly larger in diameter than the bolt is.

The slot is longer to allow movement side to side by about 1/8". There is almost no movement between the stopper bolt and the area that wears on the carrier. That length of the slot may be for assembly of the shield.

[Buffalo]

The slot is longer to allow movement side to side by about 1/8". There is almost no movement between the stopper bolt and the area that wears on the carrier. That length of the slot may be for assembly of the shield.

Thanks Ken. I agree with Cliffyk that it should be elongated (I seem to remember at least that much from the engineering classes I took back in the 60's ). However it didn't appear that the new deeper part of the bolt hole was when looking at the picture. However pictures can be deceiving due to the angle the camera was to the item being photographed.

[Ken]

I just completed the clearance check for the shim and it was .150" and the old shim that is .028" is the correct shim as the .150" is at center of spec (.147-.154"). That is a plus for today as I will not have to be waiting for a shim kit.

[cliffyk]

Thanks for posting those Ken.

If you have not already installed the primary, could you measure the hole the stopper bolt fits into and see if it is elongated. As near as I can tell measuring on the picture, it looks like it is the same dimension front to back as it is side to side. That would put a kink in the theory that room is needed for it to move in and out as the shaft heats and cools. That is unless the hole is significantly larger in diameter than the bolt is.

The slot is longer to allow movement side to side by about 1/8". There is almost no movement between the stopper bolt and the area that wears on the carrier. That length of the slot may be for assembly of the shield.

That small allowance is likely why shim selection on reassembly is an essential process, the goal being to place the initial "room temperature" position of the stopper bolt nearest the outer end of the slot. Then as the shaft expands there is sufficient slot available to let the bearing float outward. The O-ring is almost certainly there to provide some pre-load. In the earlier back-of-a-napkin calculation I came up with a shaft growth of 0.025" or so. Like the 2mm longer bolt is does not sound like a lot, however if the bearings were both fixed they would not last 100 hours loaded up like that.

[Ken]

A few more pics of the improved primary. With the shield moved back, and a slightly different angle, you can better see the changes.

[cliffyk]

You said the bearing had the same part numbers, is the OD the same or did they reduce it? If not then there is sufficient "meat" to deepen the slot...

[MJR]

If you have not already installed the primary, could you measure the hole the stopper bolt fits into and see if it is elongated.

It is plainly a slot, cut with an end-mill:

It has to be a slot because the bearing at one end of a shaft like that has to float--that is why the whole bearing carrier is designed the way it is.

I agree with Cliffyk that it should be elongated (I seem to remember at least that much from the engineering classes I took back in the 60's ). However it didn't appear that the new deeper part of the bolt hole was when looking at the picture. However pictures can be deceiving due to the angle the camera was to the item being photographed.

That length of the slot may be for assembly of the shield.

End mill as Cliff said just a deeper cut which goes through to the bearing outer race which is why it looks strange in the photo. The difference between the dark coated part and the shiny bearing race. Has to be a slot not just because of movement (like Cliff said) but due to variation in shimming, cushioning of the o-ring, and shield mounting. I can't believe they still let the shield rattle around in that groove.

The outer case that I received shows evidence that it has been previously installed. Every place that a bolt goes, has the marks that a bolt head would leave and every place that a bearing goes shows evidence that a bearing has been installed. There is also ruminants of liquid gasket that was used to seal the case. There are some scuff marks as well but everything looks like it is not worn and should be OK. I just wonder if Suzuki did not pull or reuse the case. A dealer may have repaired a broken bike and returned the case.??? I am going to install the case as I don't think there will be a problem with it, but when I paid for new, I expect new and not previously installed.

Not unusual but they should never have sold you a previously installed part. It often happens that mechanics will replace part that maybe were not necessary and have to remove them returning them to parts. In our case we mark the parts for shop use only (installed by us) rather than selling them over the counter. I guess as long as it looks fine but I would definitely call tell and see what they will do, maybe you'll get some money back (discount).

It is same vendor (NTN) and same #.

Is your bearing showing 6207 LHA like my '06?



My '03 has a different one part # 6009 LHA.

[cliffyk]

I wonder if anyone ever got their butt chewed out for positioning the shield's mounting groove smack dab in the middle of the stop bolt's normal range? Poor fellow did not think that through all the way...

[MJR]

I wonder if anyone ever got their butt chewed out for positioning the shield's mounting groove smack dab in the middle of the stop bolt's normal range? Poor fellow did not think that through all the way...

[Buffalo]

I hope his butt looked a bit like some of the stopper bolt pictures I've seen posted on here .

[Ken]

MJR, The bearing is the same as your 06. 6207 LHA

Everyone please ask any additional questions before tomorrow AM. I will be assembling the CVT then. I am currently allowing a very small amount of RTV to cure. That RTV will be holding the big O ring below the shim.

[MJR]

MJR, The bearing is the same as your 06. 6207 LHA

Everyone please ask any additional questions before tomorrow AM. I will be assembling the CVT then. I am currently allowing a very small amount of RTV to cure. That RTV will be holding the big O ring below the shim.

Thanks. Could I get some photos of the other end that goes into the engine driven gear. I'm sure I'll think of something else later.

[cliffyk]

MJR, The bearing is the same as your 06. 6207 LHA

Everyone please ask any additional questions before tomorrow AM. I will be assembling the CVT then. I am currently allowing a very small amount of RTV to cure. That RTV will be holding the big O ring below the shim.

After seeng the rust in the floating carrier's bearing bore (see below) I would consider bedding that bearing in hi-temp RTV upon assembly--even if it meant disassembly and reassembly of the carrier (all you really need to do is pull the bearing). The rust looks to me as though it was caused by moisture intrusion, bedding the bearing in RTV would guard against that to great extent. Rust in an assembly like that is bad, as it is much harder than steel, if/when it escapes to other components you may as well have assembled them with 800 grit grinding compound.



Viewing the photo series I am struck by what looks as though the whole thing was assembled "dry" with no anti-corrosion/anti-seize compounds or even a grease film--in addition the RTV as seems appropriate, Green Grease is good stuff for that...

[MJR]

Exactly I can't believe they didn't at least smear a little anti seize in a few places, it sure would make getting it all apart a lot easier. I think they were overly concerned with stuff migrating to the belt or pulley faces but then again they used something similiar on the coarse adjuster screw thread.

[cliffyk]

Exactly I can't believe they didn't at least smear a little anti seize in a few places, it sure would make getting it all apart a lot easier. I think they were overly concerned with stuff migrating to the belt or pulley faces but then again they used something similiar on the coarse adjuster screw thread.

99.44% of the lubricant "regular" people (present company excepted) apply to "stuff" gets thrown off in the first 30 seconds of operation. All that's needed is a thin flim that stays in place once the device in question is in operation. For most bearings, on the inner and outer race surfaces, a thin film wiped on with your finger is plenty to perhaps even too much. Green Grease is good as it does have synthetic polymers and does not separate easily with harsh conditions and age like most soap-based greases. It's drop point is over 500°F...