Rider Magazine tests the new BMW scooters

[paulcbrowne]

The reviews seem quite positive especially for the GT model. Price looks to be just a little higher than the 650 Exec based on Euros. It also sounds like the GT has fixed under-seat storage vs. the flex case on the Sport model. Gas required is 89 and mileage about the same as a 650, so a bit more expensive there. CVT belt must be replaced at 20,000 miles. 60 hp vs. the 650's 50 hp. Single shock and 15" tire in back. Sounds like it might out-handle the 650 and maybe be a little quicker, although the 650's computer controlled CVT and suspension mods that many of have made make leave them equal. It will be interesting to see if BMW will really promote these. Maybe this will nudge Suzuki to update the 650.

Read the full review: http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-storie ... t-ride.htm

[InfernoST]

The reviews seem quite positive especially for the GT model. Price looks to be just a little higher than the 650 Exec based on Euros. It also sounds like the GT has fixed under-seat storage vs. the flex case on the Sport model. Gas required is 89 and mileage about the same as a 650, so a bit more expensive there. CVT belt must be replaced at 20,000 miles. 60 hp vs. the 650's 50 hp. Single shock and 15" tire in back. Sounds like it might out-handle the 650 and maybe be a little quicker, although the 650's computer controlled CVT and suspension mods that many of have made make leave them equal. It will be interesting to see if BMW will really promote these. Maybe this will nudge Suzuki to update the 650.

Read the full review: http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-storie ... t-ride.htm

Amen to getting Suzuki to update and refine their machines. I read that they are revamping both the 400 & 650 for 2013 I just can't remember for the life of me where I read that, probably here. CRS is seems to be getting the better of me these days.

[berg]

CVT belt must be replaced at 20,000 miles.

Thanks for the link. They appeal to me for sure.

One small correction I believe the author wrote that the anticipated belt service life could be 20,000k not miles. Even worse really - at 12,000 miles that could be an expensive service courtesy of BMW.

[InfernoST]

Good article thanks for the link. I would love to see how much the replacement parts for this machine are.

[rustynail]

The more I read about these bikes, the more I think BMW missed the mark.

I mean, why engineer and come to market with a bike nearly the same as an AN650?

They coulda knocked it out of the park with shaft drive, 750cc, lighter frame, etc.

Instead, they just made a clone that's marginally better and presumably marginally more expensive.

Most designs stick around for a few years to pay for all the R&D costs and such. This move just leaves it wide open for Suzuki to walk off with the market with a rebuild of the AN line soon.

Dumb move, BMW. Dumb move.

[MacDoc]

The replacement belt cost is what put me off the Silverwing. Seems way too much a "me too for more money" machine and not a chance I'd touch early model year.

But still it's good have more entries in the category - maybe kick Suzi into a new model

[JustPassinThru]

The more I read about these bikes, the more I think BMW missed the mark.

I mean, why engineer and come to market with a bike nearly the same as an AN650?

They coulda knocked it out of the park with shaft drive, 750cc, lighter frame, etc.

Instead, they just made a clone that's marginally better and presumably marginally more expensive.

Most designs stick around for a few years to pay for all the R&D costs and such. This move just leaves it wide open for Suzuki to walk off with the market with a rebuild of the AN line soon.

Dumb move, BMW. Dumb move.

Shaft drive and a bigger engine, would cost on fuel economy. (As a BMW Boxer owner, I can attest.) And THAT is one area that scooters, any scooter, has the equivalent bike beat.

Don't know why Suzuki is not updating their hardware. The don't seem to have much in the planning-and-strategy department...their car lineup has suffered as much, too, keeping them a bit player. And their motorcycles...uninspiring, to say the least, with a couple of exceptions.

The Burgman seemed to set a new bar for touring scoots when it came out. Why they're not exploring further, with more capacity, comfort, economy and reliability, is anyone's guess.

[Daboo]

...Why they're not exploring further, with more capacity, comfort, economy and reliability, is anyone's guess.

Any change to a part, costs money. If they change the tranny, there's the R&D costs, tooling, contracts with suppliers, etc. The same thing with even something innocuous like the seat. I think Suzuki and the other manufacturers are operating on very small margins of profit with little cash reserves to invest in R&D.

I look at bikes like the Silverwing that was redesigned a year or more ago and is being sold in Europe...but not here in the USA. We get the old model. The new TMax will be the same way. Here's a "what-if" that just occurred to me. Considering that the Silverwing for example is being sold in two models. That means two production lines. That's costly. Now what if the definition of a bike with a manufacturing date of 2012 is based on when some part is put on the bike? Say, the engine as an example? You could have over produced Silverwings (or any other bike) in 2008 and if you put the engine in the frame in 2012, you now have a 2012 model. You make more profit with the increased retail prices, and you don't have to have two production lines running. Give the new ones to Europe, and the old models to the USA market till they run out.

This was a decent review, but still lacking IMHO. I sensed the writer was doing as many reviewers will do and accentuating the pros, and minimizing any cons to the bike. It was just a little more indepth than the earlier reviews that simply reprinted the BMW sales brochure.

I had to wonder about these two statements...

there’s a stout male-slider fork up front and a horizontally mounted single shock in back that’s adjustable for spring preload.

Besides their smooth, brisk power, throaty sound and dynamic handling, the scooters’ high-end, functional suspension and non-linked, triple-disc brakes with standard ABS elevate these BMWs from dorky scooter to motorcycle serious.

What exactly does "stout male-slider fork" mean? It sounds good, but how much different is this than my 400's front fork? I saw the reference to the "horizontally mounted single shock in back" and said to myself that this is what the 400 has. And then the suspension is called "high-end, functional suspension". Nice words, but how effective are the parts in action? That's what I'd like to read about.

Just having the right parts, does not make two vehicles equal. I had a car that was made in 1966. It was a fastback with bucket seats, four on the floor, European, rear engine, dual exhaust, flush mounted headlights...but it was a VW Beetle, not a Porsche. But it had all the right sounding parts. (And I could "chirp" the tires between 1st and 2nd gear!)

And the "non-linked, triple-disc brakes with standard ABS" don't make it any better than a new 400 ABS.

So how does it really stack up? That's what I want to know. I guess I'll just have to wait.

Chris

[Gbjbany]

They made it to LA
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/02/438508 ... t-new.html

[MacDoc]

Stupid article - oh the most powerful Vespa.....gee whiz....

how about Aprilla 850 which will eat them for lunch let alone the Burgman 650 - which I suspect will dine daintily on them.

[rustynail]

...let alone the Burgman 650 - which I suspect will dine daintily on them.

I know I'm hoping to run into a C scooter on my annual fall mountain ride.

[gruntled]

When I look at the specs the seat height worries me. I won't know for sure until I am able to sit on one but that might be a deal killer. The rest of it looks pretty good.
It calls for 89 octane gas but is that really necessary? Won't the computor chip let it run on regular without knocking?
If so what would be the effect? A reduction in performance & or a reduction in gas mileage?

[Meadeball]

You guys are too wussy.

I'm not afraid to pick up the telephone and call California from Virginia. Just got off the phone with Steve in Sales at New Century in LA. He said the "official" pricing isn't out yet, but the "rumor from corporate" -- the "price I'd give you if you put a gun to my head" -- is around $10K for the S and $12K for the GT, he said. (The GT is the equivalent of the 650.)

I'm seeing brand-new, dealer stock Burgie 650 Execs on Cycle Trader for under $9,000 here in Virginia. I will not add another $3K for the old propeller emblem. Besides, that bike -- any bike or other kind of vehicle -- is going to have its initial shakedown problems, quirks, etc. O Holy BMW will be no exception.

And whoever said it about BMW maintenance / parts costs is also correct. After a year of owning a used Saab, I want no more European vehicles!

Burgman for me! I just hope Suzuki fires its colorblind paint shop manager by the time I'm ready to buy (2013 or '14) and gives us some COLORS to choose from. Bring back that crimson from the K8 400!

[InfernoST]

Burgman for me! I just hope Suzuki fires its colorblind paint shop manager by the time I'm ready to buy (2013 or '14) and gives us some COLORS to choose from. Bring back that crimson from the K8 400!

+1 on the firing of the color blind paint shop manager.

The color is actually Sanoma Red.

[Meadeball]

"Sanoma" or "Sonoma" (as in wine)?

(Personally I wouldn't care if it's "bologna" as long as they'd offer us something other than shades of black and white!)

How about a bright yellow? Yellow with black floorpads/seat/dash etc. would allow me to call my bike DeWalt or Stanley, and I'd have no problems with being seen!

[InfernoST]

My Bad "Sonoma".

[rustynail]

I mean, why engineer and come to market with a bike nearly the same as an AN650?

...the "price I'd give you if you put a gun to my head" -- is around $10K for the S and $12K for the GT, he said. (The GT is the equivalent of the 650.)

And for 3k more.

Dumb, BMW. Dumb.

The goal should be to engineer a bike a lot better for a little more.

[Meadeball]

I think the friendly folks at BMW are a little bloated in their collective opinion of themselves. Not that they don't make a quality product -- they are deservedly well-respected in the automotive and motorcycling world for building some of the finest machines there are. But frankly I think they sometimes lose sight of the fact that modern technology is often capable of coming rather close to their workmanship at quite a bit of savings on the requisite cost of attainment. If you get to know me, you'll also learn I'm a fan of Mazda automobiles (see my gallery for the car I drive). Back in 2000, Car and Driver magazine quipped that the lowly Mazda Protege ES, the top-end version of a car that was designed to compete with the likes of the Honda Civic and Volkswagen Jetta, came extremely close to outperforming the BMW 3-series in handling, engine performance, and the highly subjective fun-to-drive factor. In their review that bested the Protege against its economy sedan rivals, they summarized the car with a sentence I'll never get tired of repeating to my BMW-owning brother: "BMW verve at less than half the price. What's not to like?" C&D caught a lot of flack for that statement, but having owned Mazda vehicles for a decade at that point, I understood. Kudos to C&D for having the (insert male anatomical reference here) to put it in writing.

BMW just recently brought out a grand touring bike that many thought was going to be the end-all to the Honda Goldwing. Well, both Cycle World and Motorcycle USA gave the bike its deservedly rave reviews, and even named it the Best Touring Bike of 2012. But note the caveat (from Motorcycle USA in this case):

"When the sun set on our long day with the GTL it was clear this motorcycle has no peers. It is in a class all its own. Inevitably the K1600GTL will be compared to the Honda GL1800 but it is a different animal. It was designed specifically to appeal to BMW owners who are accustomed to having the best of both worlds."

That appears to be the direction our new BMW scooter is taking. At a price point where it has no peers, in a class all its own. In its own world. Will that extra "touch" of smoothness, of quality -- of "legendary German engineering" -- be worth adding another 25 percent to the cost of owning a top-of-the-line Burgman? (And how much, by the way, will post-sale cost of maintenance compare?) Or will this, like the K1600GTL, be the scooter for the BMW crowd that demands the best in everything?

Well, a BMW owner I am not. I live in the Mazda world, where money doesn't rain from the trees and I don't have an endless supply of it to throw around. I enjoy performance tempered with a touch of sanity in the back pocket. That's why I drive an $18,000 Mazda3 and not a $35,000 328i. I'm sure the new "Ultimate Scooting Machines" will quickly gain their following, and the comparison wars will soon begin. I have a feeling, however, when all the comparisons are over, I'll still come out with my "BMW verve" for a lot less money. And my Burgman grin will be just a tad wider each time I pass my bank.

[rustynail]

Well said.

[MacDoc]

Good post
Don't think BMW will cut it on a first go around - not from what I saw at the show.

[ErikDK]

There's probably more "Executive floor cred" in riding a BMW scooter than a Suzuki scooter, regardless of the scooters actual street performance, and that alone will ensure BMW a good sale among the clientèle who only rides scooters because of congestion.

[Desert Rat]

CVT belt only lasts 12,000 miles and that's German engineering........... sound more like Chinese to me

[jenkins]

My question is: What is the cost of the plastic when one sets it down?? How come we have no skid plates built in?? Just askin Jim

[jcdorz]

The reviews seem quite positive especially for the GT model. Price looks to be just a little higher than the 650 Exec based on Euros. It also sounds like the GT has fixed under-seat storage vs. the flex case on the Sport model. Gas required is 89 and mileage about the same as a 650, so a bit more expensive there. CVT belt must be replaced at 20,000 miles. 60 hp vs. the 650's 50 hp. Single shock and 15" tire in back. Sounds like it might out-handle the 650 and maybe be a little quicker, although the 650's computer controlled CVT and suspension mods that many of have made make leave them equal. It will be interesting to see if BMW will really promote these. Maybe this will nudge Suzuki to update the 650.

Read the full review: http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-storie ... t-ride.htm

The Burgman has 55 hp and the Silver Wing has 50 hp. But I agree with many of you the BMW is just a teenie bit more than the Burgman on power and doesn't offer any significant change except on price-they will charge a high price. JC

[Scootertrash]

I tend to believe BMW is a lot of Fahvernugen, Streudel & Doodle, They obviously build a good product, but I feel some of it is hype, and head games to separate us from hard to come by bucks these days. Similar but different to the head games played by the legendary Motor Company and its marketing messages. I've rode a few Beemers over the years that friends own, and while nice machines, with futuristic features about them, I haven't rode one yet that was begging to be in my garage. Should someone wake up and include self cancelling turn signals, and electronic cruise control on the Burgie, it will be a tough motorbike to top!