Adige SU-84 clutch...

[cliffyk]

It looks as though I may have purchased the last in the US Adige clutch for our scoots? Got it from Dennis Kirk where it is now listed as "No longer Available", and Google turns up only a couple vendors with "1 in stock", and most listing "not available" or "call".

Side by side it is identical to the OEM unit, if I had to get the right answer with a gun to my head I would say Adige made the OEM clutches or makes (made?) a damned good clone. It was $103 with free shipping, $40 to $80 less than an OEM clutch; I had also read a couple of positive reviews. I won't be installing it for a while, as the original clutch now at 18k miles has another 3-4k in it, but when I do I will report back.

Not to ignite another firestorm, however my grandfather and mother were Scottish which makes my sometimes squeezing a penny genetic. I looked at the HIT clutch however there was no way I could justify 3 times the cost for something for which I could well likely end up being a beta version field tester. Just few reports of "I took it from the box, installed it and it's been the best thing since sliced bread for 20k miles" might have swayed me, but the tales revealed here and in the few other venues--with full appreciation that those who do not have problems do not post nasty-grams--will keep me away at least 'til the next time I need a clutch.

[cliffyk]

I have been privately and roundly chastised for my blatant and assertive criticism of the wonder that is the HIT clutch, expressed above. As such I find I must apologise to the entire forum for for taking such a contentious stand against the HIT clutch, something so obviously the holy grail of Burgman 400 "clutchdom".

Let me be clear from here forth, I say fooey on all pretenders and those who would challenge the HIT clutch supremacy.

Had I realised I was attacking such deeply held, almost religious, beliefs I would have been much more retrospect in my attestation, or even withheld my scathing commentary regarding the HIT clutch. It was certainly not my intention to publicly assault the idol of anyone's worship.

I like the HIT clutch, it is even better than Cats...

[ray nielsen]

Parts Unlimited, the parent company of Dennis Kirk, still carries the Adige clutch. I got a discount from my local aftermarket shop and paid about $88 when I installed mine. Retail is $100.95 according to their catalog.

It operates just like the stock clutch, but seems to engage a bit more positively as one starts across an intersection. The pad material looks like it might be metallic vs. fabric for the original in my 2006 model. The original was slightly glazed and I kept it after abrading the surface a bit as pad thickness was still quite good -- don't remember the measurement, but the thickness was about 75% of new.

Ray Nielsen, in MInneapolis and suffering some quite cold weather, it's below zero!

[billmeek]

I have been privately and roundly chastised for my blatant and assertive criticism of the wonder that is the HIT clutch

<snip>

I like the HIT clutch, it is even better than Cats...

This has to be one of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time on BurgmanUSA!

[cliffyk]

Parts Unlimited, the parent company of Dennis Kirk, still carries the Adige clutch. I got a discount from my local aftermarket shop and paid about $88 when I installed mine. Retail is $100.95 according to their catalog.

It operates just like the stock clutch, but seems to engage a bit more positively as one starts across an intersection. The pad material looks like it might be metallic vs. fabric for the original in my 2006 model. The original was slightly glazed and I kept it after abrading the surface a bit as pad thickness was still quite good -- don't remember the measurement, but the thickness was about 75% of new.

Ray Nielsen, in MInneapolis and suffering some quite cold weather, it's below zero!

FWIW I exchanged email with Amy at Dennis Kirk, they no longer have the clutch available. Parts Unlimited (online) lists one remaining in stock; at $108.95. One would think if Parts Unlimited was continuing to stock them DK could get one? IDK what this all means--it would be a shame if it becomes scarce, as from my physical observation it appears equal to the OEM unit--at 2/3rds the cost¹...

-----------------------------------------------
¹ - Please do not infer from any of the above commentary that I am in any way placing the lowly, and most apologetic for its very existence, Adige clutch into any competition with it's 3.5x more costly alternative. To do so would be silly beyond any comprehension. I offer proof of it's existence only as evidence that there is, for we mere mortals and our scoots, the possibility of affordable life after the death of our "OEM clutches".

Alas it is a life that offers only parity with that which we endured prior to the failure of our inherently flawed stock clutches. Therefore I advise that those choosing this lower path be aware they will never experience the full splendor. glory, resurrection and salvation attainable through greater fiscal sacrifice, unlimited devotion to experimentation in lieu of riding pleasure, and their self-sacrificing contribution to the ongoing betterment of Burgman 400 Clutchism; and the greater cause of perfection of Burgman Clutchdom as a whole.

------------------------------------------------
Once again I apologise to the forum as a whole should my comments be deemed offensive, be assured there was no such intent...

[Daboo]

...I won't be installing it for a while, as the original clutch now at 18k miles has another 3-4k in it, but when I do I will report back...

When you install it, be sure to write a review of it. Both of what it is like initially, and perhaps a follow-up with what it is like with a couple thousand miles on it. If it truly is a good alternative to the OEM clutch, I'm sure others would like to know.

It appears the clutch is available at a number of places.

* Powersport Superstore has it for $87.88
* Ron Ayers has it for the same price
* Amazon lists 4 places with the clutch starting at $92
* A Google product search shows 5 places with the prices again starting at $92

So it looks like the availability will be pretty good, if it works out well.

I did find it interesting to see the evolution of clutch design. The 2003 clutch is a 3 shoe design with shorter clutch pads. The 2007 is a 3-shoe design also, but the clutch pads extend virtually the entire length of the shoe. And the 2008 clutch is a 5-shoe design, again with the clutch pads extending the entire length of the shoe. I don't know that one works better than the other, but I did find it interesting and I wonder why Suzuki made the changes.

The pictures aren't from the same angles, but I think you can see the differences.

The Adige SU-84 clutch at Amazon.

2007 OEM clutch...at 33,500 miles

2008 OEM clutch with 5 pads.

Chris

[Ralph M]

When my clutch is down to the minimum thickness if the rest of it
is still in good order I am going to get the shoes relined and see what happens.
Anyone know how thick the org linings are from new on the five shoe clutch?

[ray nielsen]

My SU-84 Adige clutch is a five shoe unit. So was the original in my 2006 Burgman 400. Apparently there were several iterations of the clutch over the years.

My Adige now has about 8500 miles on it and is doing just fine. Operation is the same as when new, i.e. action is similar when starting motion.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis and sitting out below zero weather!

[cliffyk]

Like Chris I also found a number of listings for the Adige SU-84 showing 3-shoe units Dennis Kirk's site showed a 5-shoe clutch and I called to verified this prior to ordering. Don't know if the 3-shoe assemblies shown by others are old stock photos, just generic or whatever. Being aware of Suzuki's short lived use of a 3-shoe unit I wanted one with 5.

Also, FWIW my 2003 (manufactured in April '03) has a 5-shoe clutch which I am certain is OEM as the PO had receipts for everything he ever had done to it, with no mention of the clutch having been replaced. The shop manual I have (© 2002) also shows a 5-shoe clutch.


[edit]
Just as I got up one other comment came to mind. If engineering a centrifugal clutch the length (and width if that were a factor--I.e. surface area) of the pads would be dependent upon selected pad material, and it's coefficient of friction when in contact with the material of the drum/bell, and of course the desired dynamic friction during the clutch's eventual operation.

As has been mentioned before the Adige clutch appears to have metallic pads, which as with brake pads has a higher coefficient of friction than many other pad materials.

I will get a photo of the clutch I received and post it in a bit...

[cliffyk]

Here are a couple photos of the Adige clutch I received:

[Scootereno]

I did find it interesting to see the evolution of clutch design.
Chris

Hmm...My 2005 has the 5 shoe OEM clutch.

[ray nielsen]

I'm not sure it evolution, rather than a change in specification. Three, four and five shoe clutches have been used, apparently without regard to year of manufacture. My 2004 and 2006 Burgman 400s have the five shoe. Don't know about others, but messages on this suggest 3, 4 and 5 shoe models on second generation models.

I'd guess total surface area is about the same, but haven't measured it to be sure.

In any case my Adige continues to work well and a visual inspection with a mirror reveals NO apparent wear in about 8 K miles.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis and just done shoveling snow!

[cliffyk]

I decided this afternoon to install the SU-84 in my '03. As daylight was fading fast I took no photos due it's getting dark and that the whole process has been so well documented by others it seemed pointless.

It all went smoothly, I used TwoWheelTim's innovative approach to loosening the clutch retaining nut, and a variation of Micbergsma's brute force approach to dis- and re-assembling the clutch/driven pulley. Not having his youth on my side I used a 14" long piece of 1x10 SPF (Spruce Pine Fir) with a 4" round hole in the center. That provided a bit of comfort for my old arthritic knees. The spring is not all that strong and it came apart and went together quite easily.

While it was apart I cleaned everything, replace seals and re-greased it all with Green Grease. I used an 80 lb-ft torque stick to torque the clutch retainer nut.

I did measure the Belleville washers, they were both withing 0.01 mm of one another--1.74 mm thick with an overall height of 2.30 mm--I reused them, and once again used torque sticks (65 and 75 lbft) on the crankshaft and final drive nuts.

Took it out for a short 5 mile or so trip into downtown Saint Augustine back. The new clutch behaved nicely, very smooth even in that somewhat awkward transition from decelerating to where the clutch just disengages and then re-accelerating; no grabbing or shudder of any kind.

It's really too earlier to say, however the semi-metallic pads do seem to have smoother performance, of course comparing them to an OEM clutch with almost 19k on it (the pads were down to 3.0 mm thickness) is a false exercise to begin with. I should have 3000 miles on it by the end of March I will start a new thread then or should something of import happen before then.

[cliffyk]

I forgot to mention, I chucked the clutch bell into my lathe and broke the glaze using 120 grit Metalite cloth (and my fingers)--nothing precision and no significant removal of material, but just a bit of a scrub to let the new clutch set a bit better. I chucked it by the outer hub in a 3-jaw chuck, known accurate to 0.0005" at that diameter. The bell ran as true as could be expected. I didn't put an indicator on it but my eye said it was dead on...

[Scootereno]

Nothing better than having access to a lathe to make things simpler for us older men!

[cliffyk]

It's a little 7 x 14 Sieg unit, quite accurate once I took it apart, shimmed the head stock and scraped the ways. I have had it for almost 10 years now and it continues to hum along.

I picked up their X2 mini-mill 8 years or so ago, they are best thought of as pre-assembled assembly kits. You need to take 'em apart deburr things, clean out the left over swarf, and re-lube with something other than the fish-oil they come with.

lathe:


mini-mill:


Properly cared for they are both surprisingly capable...

[Aladinbama]

I thought I'd make some sort of smart comment about, "Boy, I guess it's time to check mine," but I guess I should just go ahead and order one. I'll be going with teh $100 (+/-) model SU-84 myself. My gas mileaage has been tanking recently and I'll bet that's part of the issue.

[cliffyk]

When my clutch is down to the minimum thickness if the rest of it
is still in good order I am going to get the shoes relined and see what happens.
Anyone know how thick the org linings are from new on the five shoe clutch?

Ralph,

FWIW the pads on the Adige clutch were 5.5 mm thick...

[Daboo]

I'd be really interested in knowing where or how to reline the clutch pads.

Chris

[cliffyk]

See, we do think alike--I was going to ask that.

It seems unlikely to me that it is a service that could be purchased for a whole lot less than $20/shoe--which is what a whole new clutch costs. I riveted new brake shoe linings many. many years ago--came in a kit with the punch and die, rivets and all--but I have never done bonded shoes...

[cliffyk]

Once again in the FWIW category, I contacted Adige and asked about the SU-84 clutch--specifically, had it been ever been produced in a 3-shoe configuration as illustrated on many sites offering them for sale?

Nada, nope, never... It has been "a 5-shoe clutch since introduced", and if it had been produced a a 3-shoe model it would have been assigned "a different model number". It would therefore appear that the 3-shoe photos shown on most vendor sites offering the SU-84 (sku # 1131-0907) are generic "looks sort of like this" BS--I hate (yes hate, like Hitler) when vendors don't provide an actual picture of WTF I am buying.

Kudos to Dennis Kirk for doing so, even if they do not stock the clutch any longer...

[Ralph M]

Lots of companies in the UK do relining of brake shoes, many that deal with older vehicles
will do one offs mine a org clutch and if the book is to be believed it started life at 3mm
but if that's so they list 2mm as the limit so 1mm does not sound a lot of ware, anyway
once mine get down to the limit I will talk to the re liners and see what it will cost.

[cliffyk]

Well curiosity got the better of me, so a couple days ago I sent this photo of my well-worn clutch out to a few US clutch and brake "reliners", along with the fundamental dimensions--150 mm unit OD, 26.5 mm x 52 mm pad--and asked for ball-park quotes. I also stated, for the purpose of establishing a baseline, that a new complete assembly could be purchased for $100 "give or take".



I have heard from three. Two quoted for grinding off the remaining lining, bonding pads of similar material (or actually as I would select), and final grinding to a specified OD. One quoted $117.50 ($23.50 per shoe), another $143.25 ($28.65 per shoe); plus shipping both ways. The last stated quite simply, "buy the $100 assembled unit".

[Aladinbama]

Well, my $100 unit is on its way. Given that I have over 24K miles and never even looked at it, I'm pretty sure it will be the devil of a few issues. I guess it will be slipped on when I do my next round of overall maintenance (very soon).

[tsc3047]

I have been privately and roundly chastised for my blatant and assertive criticism of the wonder that is the HIT clutch, expressed above. As such I find I must apologise to the entire forum for for taking such a contentious stand against the HIT clutch, something so obviously the holy grail of Burgman 400 "clutchdom".

Let me be clear from here forth, I say fooey on all pretenders and those who would challenge the HIT clutch supremacy.

Had I realised I was attacking such deeply held, almost religious, beliefs I would have been much more retrospect in my attestation, or even withheld my scathing commentary regarding the HIT clutch. It was certainly not my intention to publicly assault the idol of anyone's worship.

I like the HIT clutch, it is even better than Cats...

Ahahahaha... That is funny.