Flickering Electrical

[CalvinFold]

This is a more specific continuation of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54893#p506371

BACKGROUND:
The flickering may have started after I had a parking lot-style drop: I had been riding for a few hours on back roads, pulled over to take a break. Was stopped, engine running, put my feet down, right foot slipped, bike was 90° on it's side and I was hands-and-feet in the gravel. Bike ran fine after getting it upright, didn't notice any flickering, but wasn't riding at night either.

ISSUES:
I'm having issues with the headlights, running lights, dash lights, etc. flickering. Seems worst at low RPMs and when the bike is cold (maybe the first 10 minutes of riding).

I've also had the electrical quit once within that first 10 minutes: the scooter stuttered/lurched, every light on the dash went on (lots of indicator lights!), every light on the bike went out, then the bike started back up. That happened leaving the parking garage and the bike was fine getting me home, but I've not dared ride it since (imagine that happening at 70mph in the fast lane on the highway...).

SHOP SUGGESTION/DIAGNOSIS:
The weekend before this "sudden stall" happened I brought up the flickering lights with my mechanic and he checked the electrical. The R/R is apparently failing (voltage is low...he figured I'd be okay to ride until it came in). However, he says the flickering may not be the R/R but a loose connector. He suggested since the fall hit the cowling hardest, to take it off and check all the wiring (still need to do that).

Per the link above, I have the battery tray off and checked what I believe is the frame ground connector: white plastic socketed connector (single blade), one end leads to negative terminal of battery, the other end leads into the wiring harness on the left side of the bike. Looks fine.

QUESTIONS:
--While I'm in here, anything I should do to the frame ground connector as a maintenance item? Blade contacts look clean and no black marks or any indication of a short.

--Any multimeter tests I can perform?

--Anything else I should specifically look at while I have the battery tray out?

--Anything under the front cowl I should look at specifically?

--Do you think it is, or is not, simply the R/R?

[ErikDK]

Did you check if the battery has lost any acid?

If the battery lost a significant amount of acid, it would also loose a lot of its capacity, and thereby its ability to even out the fluctuations from the R/R - especially since the OEM Suzuki is not the best in that department.

[JamesR]

Maintenance free lead acid batteries are leak proof in all positions.

[ErikDK]

My second-hand B650 did not come with a sealed battery.

Anyway CalvinFold has already aired his suspicion of the battery, but he doesn't write anything about it being checked in any way, only that he had the shop order a new sealed gel battery, but nothing about it being installed yet.

In my book, charging system troubleshooting starts out with a battery that has been fully charged, then tested for cranking amps and slow discharge (leaving the headlights on for some time) and then charged again.

From there on, you measure the battery voltage with engine off, at idle and through the rpm range.

The OEM cheapskate regulator-rectifier is infamous for unstable regulation, which get attenuated by a week battery that can't smooth out the ripples. Mosfet regulators are much better at regulating, but everything starts and ends with a good battery, that will only remain good if the rest of the charging system is OK.

[Buffalo]

Calvin, The black wire with the white connector that branches off the large black ground wire is the ground to the wiring harness. That is the one I'm pretty sure you checked. For the problems that you are describing that is the one I would check. My lights and the dash would not come one until I plugged it up.

The large black wire goes down and bolts to the engine next to the starter. It is the one I would call the frame ground but it really only comes into play when you are starting the bike. To get to it you will probably have to remove the tunnel cover/floorboard piece.

[Dave_J]

A stator puts out about 70 to 85 volts of AC current. Then the regulator cuts the 70-85 Volts AC down to the normal 12.5 to 16.5 Volts of AC. The rectofier takes that AC and thru a "Half Wave" diode setup converts it into ripple pulse DC. It is not clean DC so it is pushed to a battery that has a steady voltage the when the ripple is at the low side the battery "Boosts" it up.

There are different types of "Battery" used in electronics. Most times its "B" battery which is ripple pulse. In telephone use, can you imagin talking with ripple pulse voltage. NO wont work. Telephones use "A" battery, filtered almost pure ripple-free voltage. You would not belive the size of the rectofiers in a telephone exchange or how many there are.

[CalvinFold]

Well, got the new R/R, installed it, bike showed the clock, but when I turned the key to the ignition position to start it, no headlights. Check fuse in dash, and both left-side (under seat) main fuses.

Plugged in old R/R. No clock at all, no headlights, no start. Plugged in new R/R again...no clock, no headlight, no start.

The bike started before I took the left side apart to get at the R/R...anything I could have disconnected accidentally?

Could the battery have gone south suddenly (since the last start)?

Does anyone have a list of electrical checks (and instructions) that can be made with a multimeter? I'm going to have the shop ship me my new battery, since that could be part of the problem. But would be nice to check the old one here-and-now.

[CalvinFold]

New Info:

Battery has 12.37v across the leads. I would think I could get headlights and an attempted start with that much voltage?

Also:

Why on Earth is the R/R for the Burgman so HUGE? The on my PC800 was only about a third as big.

[farqhuarforever]

Why not jump start the bike from another battery? - that way you know instantly whether it is a flat battery preventing you from starting.

[CalvinFold]

Don't have another battery...and when I do, it will be mine and brand new, why not put it in the bike?

Also, jump-starting a motorcycle is generally a no-no unless you are desperate. Heck, on some modern cars they advise against it these days. No clutch, so can't start it with the "roll down a hill and pop the clutch" trick I did on the PC800 once.

[Buffalo]

I've jump started a couple of Burgmans and a BMW from my 650. As long as you hook up the jumper cables right there is no problem doing it.

[GeeGusKahn]

Calvin
would you please explain where you obtain this info about not jump starting a motorcycle.

I have never heard this before and do not see any reason for it.

Help me understand.
thanks

[CalvinFold]

Not wanting to start an argument about jump starting (if you still want to discuss, start a new thread or send a private message), and getting back to the point:

So a battery with 12.37v needs a jump start? Why? And why not simply wait for a new battery to arrive? I had planned a new battery anyway, was just gonna wait until my next service, so they had it already. Only difference, I'll install it instead of them.

Why is it not even lighting the headlights dimly nor engaging the starter even weakly? 12.37v isn't enough for the Burgman to even try? I ask because I managed to start my PC800 on a low-voltage battery more than once, so if you think this is the cause, I'm curious why.

Per my previous post in this thread here, are there multimeter tests I can do?

Is there a blown fuse I may have not checked? Seems like a blown fuse, but I checked three fuses already: CVT and main fuses (the ones on the left under the seat) and the starter fuse (fuse panel in dash). They look okay, though I suppose I could swap them blindly in case the fuse died without a visible break.

Sorry for getting things sidetracked and not being more concise.

[farqhuarforever]

Why not jump start the bike from another battery? - that way you know instantly whether it is a flat battery preventing you from starting.

Don't have another battery...and when I do, it will be mine and brand new, why not put it in the .

Can you not jumpstart from the Pc800? 12.3v sounds low to me - I'd expect it to be around 14-15v.

Batteries can be strange things - you may have fried one of the six cells.

[ErikDK]

Let me quote DEcosse from http://www.triumphrat.net for the umpteenth time: (short version, your battery is dead)

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple- ... grade.html

A good Multi-meter is a pre-requisite.


Record your battery voltage under the follow conditions
1) Ignition off, unloaded battery.
2) Ignition on, headlights on, not running
3) Bike started, running at idle

For condition 1, should be at least in the high 12.x range if fully charged.

In condition 2, your voltage should not drop much below 12.0 at worst. (It may continue to drop – hopefully slowly! – as your lights will be discharging it. However this should be a slow decline)
If it does drop immediately into the 11’s, your battery is insufficiently charged – if it was just charged from a battery charger however, then it indicates your battery no longer has sufficient capacity to retain charge/supply current to load and should be replaced.

Condition 3 is what we are most interested in with respect to charging capability.
Voltage should be at least in the 13’s at all engine rpm. You may detect it will fall off slightly as you raise engine rpm. This is not atypical performance. A simple mod that can enhance your charging voltage to the battery can be achieved by this modification outlined in this thread. That should give you performance in the 14V+ range.

[boatnfool]

Kevin-Not sure if this is related or not but you may also want to check out the wire harness under the front cowl. As I am sure you are aware, several of us with '07 Exec have had problems with the harness.
Check out this link http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20384#p187310

Good Luck solving your problem.
Mark

[NormanB]

sounds like a duff signal fuse in the main fuse panel.

[CalvinFold]

boatnfool: Don't think it's my parking break-n-heat sink thing, wiring harness looks okay. If you're referring to the related thread with the Executives having the rubbing harness because of wiring around the windscreen motor, I fixed that before it became an issue.

NormanB: Which fuse specifically are you referring to? I've checked the two under the left side of the seat ("Main" and "CVT") and I've checked the ignition fuse (behind the left dash panel). I even today simply swapped for the spares, no change.

UPDATE:
Now I have a new battery and a new R/R, and I still have no headlights or ignition when I turn the key. The dash clock has power, but that's it, everything else (lighting and ignition) is effectively dead. It really seems like a fuse blow, but wondering what other fuses to check. And I did check the kill switch. ;-p

[Buffalo]

It could be a failing ignition switch. You can test that out with a test lamp by checking the terminals on the back of the switch one at a time.

It could also be a problem with the ground wire in the wiring harness. To test this hook a test light up to the positive side of the battery. Now find a ground wire terminal somewhere and touch the point on the test light to the ground wire terminal. If it does not come then there is a break somewhere in the ground wire circuit.

[CalvinFold]

Don't have a test lamp...any way to use a multimeter, perhaps using the continuity test?

Not sure I understand the second test..."ground wire terminal." Do you mean just touch the bare frame someplace? Or do you mean "some other connection that is supposed to lead to ground, besides the negative battery terminal"?

Sorry if this sounds "circuit checking 101," but this kind of thing is not my forte.

[Buffalo]

You can use a multi meter also. You just are checking that there is 12V +/- going through the circuit.

In the second test I am talking about the ground wire going to a plug somewhere. The frame is not a good test because the 650 does not use the frame as a ground path. It uses a ground circuit running through a wire in the wiring harness. One end of it is the black wire that ends in a white plug down by the battery. It shouldn't matter which plug you check. An easy one to get to would be the accessory plug. You will need to hook the positive lead on you multi meter to the positive on the battery. The negative lead on the meter would then get connected to the ground plug on the wire going to the accessory plug. If your meter reads voltage then the ground circuit to there is good.

[Buffalo]

Page 10-35 in my manual shows which terminals on the ignition switch should have continuity.

[CalvinFold]

Stupid follow-up question: should I do these tests with the negative terminal of the battery connected or disconnected?

[farqhuarforever]

Connected. There is no way you will see continuity if either of the battery cables is disconnected.

[CalvinFold]

Thanks!

I'll run more tests tonight if I have time. So far, I've only checked the frame ground (the wire from the white socket on the harness side), it showed continuity. If I'm understanding Buffalo's other recommended tests correctly, then I need to take off handlebar plastics (ignition switch) and dash plastics (accessory socket...I'm assuming he means the cigarette lighter socket).

Unless by "accessory socket" he means what looks like a small capped, unused socket located by the Main and CVT fuses under the seat? Then I could do that one quick tonight with ease.