First oil change

[spooker]

So I did my first oil change on the burgie, and have some questions.
1. I changed the oil filter too, and when I put the filter cover back on and tried to use the torque wrench on the filter cover bolts, the bolts just kept turning and turning and didn't lock up; but it doesn't seem like it's going to get any tighter. Is this a problem? Hope I didn't strip the holes or anything.
2. When the bike is on the center stand and turned off, the oil is right at the "F" line. Is this too high? I was aiming to have it slightly lower. I ended up putting about 1400 ml in.
Thanks.

[Chet_Benson]

Good news is the oil level is ok but sounds like you striped the threads on the filter cover. A dealer or repair shop can fix the problem by installing a helicoil insert.

Do you know what you torqued it to? I would ratter do mine by feel.

[Daboo]

Those bolts are so tiny that if you think you have them "tight", you probably overtorqued them. At this point, I'd be concerned you could run the oil out of the filter if you rode it to the dealer.

Even if stripped out, and you get a bill from the dealer for a repair, it is a lesson to be learned, and one you won't make again. And...I know you're not the first to overtorque a bolt.

Chris

[spooker]

Oh man, I am sad now. I just got the bike, and have been trying so hard to do my maintenance and keep it outta the shop; now it looks like my efforts have been counterproductive.

I just had a look, and there was a thin film of oil on the bottom of the filter cover, but none dripping. I'm gonna ride it for now but keep a close eye on it. Any idea how much it might cost me to have the 3 threads fixed? Thanks.

[Daboo]

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Get it fixed, then don't do it again.

I learned about torquing things when I was a kid. My dad checked my first installation of spark plugs in my old Buick. I had them torqued probably to 90+ ft lbs. Way over the 10-15 that should've been used. In my case, I recovered with no cost. In your case, they'll charge you for an oil change and a minimal cost to put in the helicoils.

But when you change the oil the next time, you won't do it again, will you? And now that you know, each oil change will save you $$. It's a lot better than the Majesty owner that stripped out the threads to his spark plug and had pieces of metal fall inside the cylinder. So it could've been worse, and this will be a cheap lesson...as long as you watch that oil level like a hawk!

Chris

[Chet_Benson]

Spooker
if it is leaking oil I would not ride it other than to get it fixed you shall burn up the engine. Call the dealer and find out the cost. Tell them your problem.

The good side is you will now have the threads that are steel to steel not just the aluminum which is easy to strip. The inserts are made of stainless steel. I would not use a torque wrench on small parts. i would like to feel what i am doing on he small parts. Like Chris said we learn after screwing it up the first time.

[spooker]

Thanks guys. I'm slowly getting over it, but still sad about injuring my new baby.
I dropped by the nearby Vespa shop today, and the mechanic said he couldn't fix it but I should take it to a car shop. He also said the cover seemed like it was on there pretty tight, and the bike's probably safe to ride for the time being. There's still just a small film of oil on the bottom of the cover, not enough to drip off, which doesn't risk draining the oil tank as long as it doesn't get any worse. I'm going on a 200 mile trip tomorrow with my group, which I can't drop out of now since a bunch of new people have signed up and I'm the leader. I'm bringing a bottle of oil just in case

[happytech]

A couple of points here:

1. I believe these are what they call blind holes - the bolt doesn't go all the way through - a bit tricker to put an insert in;
2. Is the rubber o-ring seated properly on the cover?


The good news is - it's a pretty straight shot to drill out those holes (unlike the old oil drain plug that was on the bottom) so it shouldn't cost too much to get it done. If you feel really confident or know someone who is, you could get a kit and do it yourself - just drain the new oil (why waste it), stuff rags, etc. in to the filter area and then VERY carefully drill out and retap.

I know - theory says that it's easy - personally, I'd take it somewhere and have it done. Any motorcycle mechanic should be able to do it pretty reasonably, but it's probably going to cost over $100.

[spooker]

I'm definitely going to take it somewhere. If I can *#&$ up an oil change, I'd hate to see the result of me trying to drill out the filter cover holes
The o-ring is seated properly; I changed both of them with the filter.
I hope it doesn't cost me $100

[ray nielsen]

Permatex used to make a product called "Thread Repair" or something similar. It consisted of several chemicals, one to coat the threads so the other epoxy based compound doesn't stick to the threads. The other was a two part epoxy mixture that was put into the damaged threads. The bolt was inserted and a certain amount of waiting time later the bolt could be removed, cleaned of the release compound and used as normal. I've personally had good luck with this repair into aluminum, BUT I'd definitely recommend usage of the proper torque wrench on re-installation of the bolts!

Check out an auto parts place for this product, although I'm not sure it's still available.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis and just now riding again after a long winter

[ray nielsen]

The Permatex product is called "Stripped Thread Repair" and it comes in a complete kit. The part number is 81668 and you should be able to locate it at an auto parts supplier like NAPA or possibly others.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis and going for a ride tomorrow!

[spooker]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I went for a 200 mile ride today and the cap stayed on with no leakage, so I think it's okay for now.
Ray, I don't think I'll try to fix this one myself--I know when I'm in over my head Enjoy your first ride.

[mikeyMarine]

Permatex used to make a product called "Thread Repair" or something similar. It consisted of several chemicals, one to coat the threads so the other epoxy based compound doesn't stick to the threads. The other was a two part epoxy mixture that was put into the damaged threads. The bolt was inserted and a certain amount of waiting time later the bolt could be removed, cleaned of the release compound and used as normal. I've personally had good luck with this repair into aluminum, BUT I'd definitely recommend usage of the proper torque wrench on re-installation of the bolts!

Check out an auto parts place for this product, although I'm not sure it's still available.

Ray Nielsen, in Minneapolis and just now riding again after a long winter

surprisingly the maintenance manual does NOT list torque values for these bolts but the cover has a top and bottom maybe that has something to do with how it keeps the oil from leaking, don't like the idea of no torque on a oil cover with multiple fasterners myself

[Chet_Benson]

It is very easy to over do the screws when you use a cheap Harbor Freight wrench like I got and cannot hear very well. And you hate reading directions. The tool gives a little and it is by feel. i would rather use a ratchet by just the feel of the tool for small screws.

If it leaks it may not be tight enough.

[spooker]

Haha, that's funny you should mention that. That's exactly what I used--a cheap Harbor Freight torque wrench. Next time, I'll use a ratchet.

[SamsGL650]

Auto machine shops do these Helicoil repairs all the time, and economicaaly, too. ( More so than if you had to stock and supply the coils and drills yourself.
I've had at least two such repairs to my Honda GL 650. My local auto (machinsts) shop has been wonderful and supportive.
In Washongton, DC ( your area) there should be plenty of auto machinist shops. Get a recommendation from your regular auto repair man.
P,S<-- not to worry- these Helicpoil repairs are top notch and said to be stronger than the original threads. SamsGL650

[micbergsma]

you saw my oil change video? only 7.0 ft-lbs, I'm sorry that you hurt your baby I got my final drive oil filler hole stripped a little over time in first three years then finally ruined and leaked, it sucks but I got it fixed.

[spooker]

Yeah I watched your video lots, and had the torque wrench set to 7. That's why it was frustrating--I was trying so hard to do the right thing, you know?

[micbergsma]

yeah, the part about tightening bolts is scary sometime

[J2H]

I'm taking mine to a repair facility to get the works done... its been sitting in someones yard too long for me to piss around with it

[Daboo]

...yeah, the part about tightening bolts is scary sometime

For me this past weekend, it was the part about loosening bolts. I have no doubt they checked every bolt as part of their pre-delivery inspection on the new 2008 I recently picked up. But I don't think the mechanic knows what a torque wrench is.

When I pulled the CVT cover off, I thought for sure one of the bolts would break. Why? because I had broken one on the 2007 and even there, I had used a torque wrench. These were probably double or triple what they should've been. If I had ridden for a couple months in the rain and gotten some corrosion in on those threads...most of them would've broke.

My electric impact wrench is rated at 235 ft lbs of torque. It almost couldn't get the nut off the variator. It is only supposed to be torqued to about 75 ft lbs.

Then I changed the oil. I couldn't budge the drain plug. So I got a better grip. I still couldn't budge it. I then finally moved into a position so that when it finally gave way, I wouldn't slam my fingers into something hard.

Luckily, the things I will most often need to remove now can be removed. But for awhile, I had visions of broken bolts and trying to explain to a dealership quite a distance away that it wasn't my fault.

Chris

[micbergsma]

wow that's insane!

[spooker]

So the filter cover's stayed on for the past 1500 miles, and I finally had it checked out by a mechanic. He said the screws and threads were fine; perhaps I was hallucinating.

I also pulled a good trick at the dealership: I wanted them to tighten the chassis bolts, since I've tried this but had a bit of trouble. I knew it required all the tupperware to be off, so what I did was get the recall done at the same time. They charged the tupperware removal time to Suzuki as part of the recall, then tightened the chassis bolts in a few minutes. It only cost me a few bucks