Rider Magazine tests the new BMW scooters

[mike1nw]

/\ Yeah about the Honda pick up truck. While car-shopping recently, I was amazed at how big the "Small" Toyota pick up truck is. I owned a 1985 Toy when it was a truck with no name. Drove it 12 years and 244,000 miles. Still running when I sold it. Now they (and all other vehicles) are big, expensive, full of stuff ya don't need.

Remember Honda's slogan of times past- "We make it simple". Yeah I see a small Honda P-up. Less is more

[Daboo]

I think BMW having a scooter on the market will open people's eyes to what a scooter can do. Whether I like BMW or not, there are people out there who want to say they own a "BMW" motorcycle. If BMW sells a scooter, then it has to be worthwhile to consider. I don't know if they invented the "adventure" motorcycle category, but there's a lot of riders who won't consider anything else but a BMW adventure bike. And there's a lot of manufacturers who try to copy that look and cachet. Now, if they can do the same with the scooter market...it could change the American opinion of scooters a lot.

Chris

[Houndguy]

I think BMW having a scooter on the market will open people's eyes to what a scooter can do. Whether I like BMW or not, there are people out there who want to say they own a "BMW" motorcycle. If BMW sells a scooter, then it has to be worthwhile to consider. I don't know if they invented the "adventure" motorcycle category, but there's a lot of riders who won't consider anything else but a BMW adventure bike. And there's a lot of manufacturers who try to copy that look and cachet. Now, if they can do the same with the scooter market...it could change the American opinion of scooters a lot.

Chris

I agree to some extent. The fact that it carries the BMW name will make a big impact alone. I have friends that will ride nothing but a BMW cycle for example. I think it will be out of my price range but I got to admit that I'm drinking the kool aid and buying into the hype.

[Daboo]

That's kind of my point. I don't intend to buy a BMW scooter. But the mere fact that they are willing to sell a scooter with the BMW name on it, gives that BMW scooter legitimacy in the eyes of people who would normally put down the whole idea of a scooter. So my hope is that more people will look closer at the BMW scooter...and maybe look at the competition. When they will actually look at a scooter, I think it'll change their prejudices.

Chris

[kbd]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-c-650-gt/review.htm

[MacDoc]

The could have at least got someone knowing something about the maxi market but nothing there is wrong except he thinks this is a new experience for riders......maybe it is for him - nothing new for Burgman 650 riders.

Sent this to him

I enjoyed the 650 GT demo ride as well ( the sport was a waste of time ) but you really should acknowledge that every feature you mention including the handling, power etc etc have been available on the Burgman 650s for 10 years - gradually improving over time to where ABS, heated grips, heated seat, power windshield and mirrors plus a more sophisticated transmission are all standard features.

You leave the impression this is new tech.

It might be all new to you but certainly not to Burgman riders nor to Hknada Silverwing riders.
The cross over from motorcycle to maxi is just about complete to the point where they are all "bikes" with different feature sets.
Even automatics are on the NC700 and the VFR 1200 as well as the big Aprilla which almost defies categorization.

Dwelling on 40 year old scooter tech does no one any good - none of the potential buyers would be in the least interested.

Existing maxi riders and those curious about the category are the target for these models. If you are going to test a model be knowledgeable about it's nearest rivals.
It was a feather in Suzuki's cap that BMW came so close in feature set to the 650 Exec.

Want some interest in long term results- put a 2013 650 Exec into the loop as well and give riders some insight.

Would have been nice to see you hang with a few Burgman riders - there will be lots in your area.
Drop in and say hi - there is interest in the BMWs but many will wait until the first year shakes out the new model issues.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59524&p=550075#p550075


David Hellstern

[MacDoc]

He replied.

Hi David:
Thanks for the info. The article was not meant to be a comparison of other scooters; I realize there are other Maxis out there, but this one is a new concept for BMW.

I have never seen a Burgman in any of the local Suzuki dealers ever, nor have I ever seen one on the road. Same with the Silver Wing...although I can say ditto for the BMW C 650 GT also!

My point of view and the purpose of the articles is as a pure motorcycle guy, who has basically never been on a scooter, owning his first scooter and describing what that's like.

Best regards,

Rick.

-----
Rick Korchak
Editor

I responded

Hey Rick

Where are you located that you are so devoid of the bigger scoots??
Maxis look like sports tourers from the front so you may never have noticed with a rider on them

I found the GT could easily keep pace with the lead rider on the 1300 BMW even when he rolled it on. He said the same thing when he rode the GT - excellent acceleration which is the whole idea of the CVT.
The 650 Burgman takes is one step further and adds in a sports mode which is just superb in the twisties. Good engine braking and top notch acceleration while standard mode is fine on the highway turning over under 4,000 rpm at 60 mph.
Long term just under 50 mpg. even with a mix of hard and easy riding.

Many riders do not recognise the category from a quick glance.
( I stuck some photos in )

Generally when introducing a model you want to let the potential rider know what else is out there. And while indeed it may be BMWs first offering - they are behind the curve on it tho the GT is a very sweet start and they priced it correctly

This was the review that first got me into the category after riding intermediate sports bikes like the RD400.

http://www.onewheeldrive.net/2006/10/04 ... i-burgman/

Anyways looking forward to more reports and hopefully from a more informed view of the growing category.
Like many others in the Burgman 650 community I consider it the the best all around bike I've ever owned in 43 years of riding and I'm on my second one. - the Executive just added some welcome refinements.

The GT650 is first contender I might consider. Put it up against it's competition.
There are some threads on the Burgman board regarding the BMW offering - might be informative for you.

Hard to believe he's in the motorcycle community and has never seen a Burgman 650 or a Silverwing.....

[MacDoc]

So are there some 650 riders in Maryland??? let him know
webbikeworld@gmail.com

On Oct/30/Tue/2012, at 10/30/7:37 PM, webBikeWorld wrote:

I'm in Maryland, not many scooters around here, although some vintage scoots in Baltimore and modern Vespas in D.C. I pretty much check out every two-wheeler I see and would probably recognize a scooter, just because they're so rare.

I'm frequently in the local motorcycle shops and have almost never seen a scooter in stock (Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda) although Battley has a few sub-150 cc scoots and they had a used Majesty when I picked up the BMW.

Just came back from a long ride on the C 650 GT in the rain, tail end of hurricane Sandy. I was pretty dry and comfy, good wind protection. Roads are in pretty good shape with just some leaves here and there...

Rick.

---------
(From my Gmail mobile account)
Rick Korchak

I replied

yep that's one thing we all like - the protection - I rode all of the last three days in just above freezing here in Toronto and sometimes wind gusts to 60 MPH. Perfectly comfortable.
Warmer today. The maxis are taking the "roll and go" easy to ride concept to their logical end.
Good storage, easy to ride in traffic, enough power for touring or twisties - decent gas mileage.

Even the high end sports cars have moved the mappable sports automatic transmissions.
You may not have had time to get into serious twisties but you'll find being the right gear all the time very liberating.
You concentrate on riding and braking and simply flat out forget about shifting.
With the weight way down low the maxi's are very easy to flick….they are heavy tho getting on the binders hard and then powering out is the preferred technique.
The weight will show up if you brake too late.
To a degree the same applies in traffic - shifting is gone. So much more relaxing yet the power is there.

We'll find a Burgman rider near you to hook up with

[alloo]

http://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-c-650-gt/review.htm

[osbornk]

I think most of his comments in the review would have applied to most Maxi-Scooters. He is new to scooters and the normal things about a scooter was new to him. The review of a 650 or even 400 would have been very similar.

[gruntled]

Got to have a demo today. The dealer got them in late last week. I found no problem with the instrument panel & the windshield seems high enough but a bit too narrow at the bottom.
It had a heated seat & grips, the tire pressure can be checked while rideing & if you had a slow leak there is an alarm light that will tell you when the pressure gets too low. It also had ABS brakes.
The front glove compartments are a bit small but the underseat storage seems quite good.
The only negative I could find was the seat height. It seems to be about the same as my Majesty.
It may possibly be a bit more but with a narrower seat so that I have to have about the same tiptoe amount.
The price was much lower than I had expected. $12,100 out the door. I will be giving it serious consideration. The dealer even offers a loaner bike anytime you need to leave any bike you buy from them for maintainance.

[Just Me]

Is there a competition on ugly? Yeck. I wonder how far away they had to stand when they threw the plastic at it to make it stick?

No thanks, I'll take my 650.

[fisher]

I got it, sorry guys. But it rides great.

I can't figure out how to put a pic on or I would. Joe

[ScooterJohn]

Looks great... but did or would you buy one????

[Buffalo]

If you are trying to upload a picture from your computer you use the "Upload attachment" button below the reply window and follow the instructions in the pop up window it produces.

If you are trying to link to a picture that is already on the web on some photo sharing site you use the "Img" button above the window and add the address between the Img tags it generates.

[osbornk]

I talked with the local BMW sales manager (e-mail as they are closed on Mondays) today and I am riding with friends on Thursday to test ride a C650. Since one of them has a 650, we will have a direct comparison.

[ur2slow1]

I picked my red C650 GT up last Thursday and could not be happier. The heated grips and seat make November riding in Ohio a pleasure. The machine is simply amazing as the ride, comfort, handling and power (TQ) all blow me away. One odd thing I noticed is that it does not rev past 6K rpm until the first service at 600miles. At said service the tech hooks the computer up and it unlocks a high red line.

[Buffalo]

One odd thing I noticed is that it does not rev past 6K rpm until the first service at 600miles. At said service the tech hooks the computer up and it unlocks a high red line.

Sounds like a way for them to force you to come to the dealer to have the service done.

[ur2slow1]

Perhaps it is an excuse to make you go to the dealer. On the other hand maybe it's a way to force owners to properly break-in their machine according to BMW guidelines. Not to sound flippant but I figured if I can afford the machine then I can afford at least the initial service at the dealer.

[osbornk]

With a BMW, the 600 mile service is the most important service it will ever get. It's to check and adjust everything after the initial breakin. My 2003 BMW R1200CLC got the initial 600 mile service (by original owner) and it has not been back since. It now has 46,000+ on it and everything has been done in my garage.

[osbornk]

Three or four of us here in the mountains have been waiting for months for the opportunity to ride the BMW scooters. One had gotten tired of waiting and bought a used Burgman 650 but still wanted a BMW. We made an appointment to have a test ride (its a 100 mile ride to the dealership and we wanted to make sure one was available) and left this morning in below freezing temperatures.

When we got to the dealership, we immediately found the C650GT and the 600 Sport. The tallest of us has a 29" inseam and he could barely tiptoe when sitting on the seat of either one. The seat is over 31" tall and it is wide. This makes the scooter impractical for those of us with short inseams and for the average woman. The hump between the feet is also high when compared to competing scooters.

The dealership had both a used Silverwing and a Burgman in stock. We sat on the BMW, Silverwing and Burgman and found the BMW by far the most challenging followed by the Silverwing.

I thought the target market for the scooters were women and the older experienced rider who needed something easier to handle. I think the height of the scooters misses the target badly.

I hope BMW doesn't abandon the scooter market like they did the cruiser market when their initial product is not a big hit when the problem is the fault of design misjudgements.

I am so glad I bought a 400 a couple of weeks ago.

[Daboo]

...I am so glad I bought a 400 a couple of weeks ago.

One of the things I wish the reviewers would do, is to include the Burgman 400 in reviews of the new BMW scooters. But they won't. The 400 is the best kept secret around. It won't have the acceleration of the BMW scooters, or the electronic gadgets, but does pretty well in other areas...and actually better in some.

Chris

[Wes_Ingram]

+1 for what Chris said!!!!

[gregbenner]

The tallest of us has a 29" inseam and he could barely tiptoe when sitting on the seat of either one. The seat is over 31" tall and it is wide. This makes the scooter impractical for those of us with short inseams and for the average woman. The hump between the feet is also high when compared to competing scooters.

The dealership had both a used Silverwing and a Burgman in stock. We sat on the BMW, Silverwing and Burgman and found the BMW by far the most challenging followed by the Silverwing.

I thought the target market for the scooters were women and the older experienced rider who needed something easier to handle. I think the height of the scooters misses the target badly.

I hope BMW doesn't abandon the scooter market like they did the cruiser market when their initial product is not a big hit when the problem is the fault of design misjudgements.
.

My experience as well. I really like the C650GT, but just too tall. BMW offers low seat options om nearly all their other models so I am hopeful they will figure this out soon. This will give me a chance to see, evaluate and compare the 2013 650 Burgy

[osbornk]

The tallest of us has a 29" inseam and he could barely tiptoe when sitting on the seat of either one. The seat is over 31" tall and it is wide. This makes the scooter impractical for those of us with short inseams and for the average woman. The hump between the feet is also high when compared to competing scooters.

The dealership had both a used Silverwing and a Burgman in stock. We sat on the BMW, Silverwing and Burgman and found the BMW by far the most challenging followed by the Silverwing.

I thought the target market for the scooters were women and the older experienced rider who needed something easier to handle. I think the height of the scooters misses the target badly.

I hope BMW doesn't abandon the scooter market like they did the cruiser market when their initial product is not a big hit when the problem is the fault of design misjudgements.
.

My experience as well. I really like the C650GT, but just too tall. BMW offers low seat options om nearly all their other models so I am hopeful they will figure this out soon. This will give me a chance to see, evaluate and compare the 2013 650 Burgy

We looked for ways to lower the BMW when we looked at it. The seat is pretty thin so I don't think much could be done there. I don't think the suspension could be lowered much by changing the rear shock and it would unbalance the entire bike. I think they would have to do a major redesign to make the seat height acceptable for those of us with short inseams. I don't think it will happen.