Flickering Electrical

[Buffalo]

I was referring to what you are calling the cigarette lighter socket. You could also test at the capped off plug or the head light plug or any other of the plugs. You are just looking for a ground wire.

So far, I've only checked the frame ground (the wire from the white socket on the harness side)

That is not the frame ground. It is the wiring harness ground. The frame ground is the big wire that smaller wire is attached to. The larger wire goes down and connects to the engine. The smaller wire goes to a wiring bus that connects it to all the ground wires that go to the various plugs. As has been stated before, the 650 does not use the frame for a wiring ground path. The only place the frame ground is used is for the starter motor circuit. All the other circuits on the bike use the wiring harness ground.

[CalvinFold]

Just got off the phone with the mechanic, and of course diagnosing an electrical problem over the phone isn't easy, but considering the circumstances, he said "fuse"...but he mentioned a fuse the manual isn't specific about it's location, but mentions alongside the "Main" and "CVT" fuses, labelled as "Power Source."

Is anyone familiar with where this "Power Source" fuse is located (assuming it exists)? I'm thinking my next bet it to go fuse-checking under the cowling, and I know there is an odd collection of otherwise hidden fuses and relays on the right side by the windscreen motor.

Still plan to check the ground as well, as well as the ignition switch.

Mechanic also asked another question that may help: does the bike make any noises when I turn the key, such as the fuel pump engaging (the usual "whirs and electrical noises")--and the answer is "no." Except for the dash clock being on, you'd think the battery was removed from the bike when I turn the key--complete silence.

Which begs the question...what fuse (or other electrical component) would control the entire bike except the clock?

ALSO, thank you very much for all your help and patience.

[Buffalo]

The only fuses I remember seeing on the left side when I had mine apart are the CVT and Main Fuses.

There are some fuses up on the right side up under the cowling but those are for the windshield and ABS if I remember right.

[Dave_J]

I'll run more tests tonight if I have time. So far, I've only checked the frame ground (the wire from the white socket on the harness side), it showed continuity. If I'm understanding Buffalo's other recommended tests correctly, then I need to take off handlebar plastics (ignition switch) and dash plastics (accessory socket...I'm assuming he means the cigarette lighter socket).

Unless by "accessory socket" he means what looks like a small capped, unused socket located by the Main and CVT fuses under the seat? Then I could do that one quick tonight with ease.

Keven, take your VOM and in DC volts, put the red + lead on your batterys + lug and then touch the black lead to the lighters socket's side. that is the ground side of the socket.

[Redbeard]

Which begs the question...what fuse (or other electrical component) would control the entire bike except the clock?

NormanB called it.

Answer: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52028&p=480819&hilit=fan+relay#p480819

[CalvinFold]

Yeah except I checked that fuse already (I thought), and no dice. I'll check again though.

Also checked the accessory socket...has continuinity.

Why do I feel like this is one of those "stupid obvious things" and I'm just missing it?

[Buffalo]

If you have double checked and everything is hooked back up correctly then some component is failing. If the whole bike is loosing current then main fuse, ground, a short in the wiring harness or the ignition switch not making internal contact are the likely culprits. You've checked the main fuse and ground. That leaves a short or the ignition switch. Of the two the ignition switch is the easier to check so I would check it next.

The one on Robin's 07 Exec went bad and it behaved much like your's is. She pulled the front fairing off for easier access to the back of it then tested each pin to see if current was getting through it when she turned the key to the various positions. The only one she was getting current through was the parking light position. That matched what she saw on the bike because only the clock and the tail lights would come on and the tail lights only came on when the key was in the parking light position.

[CalvinFold]

Which gives me the idea to check the Parking Light position quick as a sort of easy clue/symptom.

And when you say the "ignition switch" and "take off front fairing" I'm now guessing you're not talking about the starter button by the throttle?

So what/where is this "ignition switch" I'm checking this weekend? I obviosly need to go grab the service manual and look-up 10-35 per your earlier comment.

Also, the mechanic had a vague recollection of Suzuki having a bulletin about the ignition switch, but he couldn't remember what bike/years off the top of his head. So off chance it's a warranty item if it is dead.

Again, I appreciate your help and patience.

With luck, fairing comes off tonight after work, checking the switch this weekend. Didn't really need to be playing mechanic in the middle of another huge project that is time-sensitive.

P.S. For the record, my multimeter is obviously slightly daft...even on a brand-new, shop-topped-off battery it only reads 12.4v DC. So my old battery was likely not "dead." Not that I wasn't planning to replace it as a pre-emptive measure anyway...it's the original 2007 battery, I think I've pushed my luck enough lately...

[Buffalo]

By the ignition switch I am talking about the switch you put the key into.

There was a service bulletin about the ignition switch but I believe it was for the 04 model.

[Buffalo]

The ignition switch is item number 26 on this fiche. Fiche Link .

The contacts you will need to test are on the left end of it in the drawing.

[Buffalo]

Did some searching and the bulletin was on the 03 models.

[NormanB]

With reference to the main fuse panel, the one to the left of the locking glovebox.
Did you check the fuses by visual (not so good and not foolproof) or by continuity using a mult-meter (good and foolproof)?

[CalvinFold]

With reference to the main fuse panel, the one to the left of the locking glovebox.
Did you check the fuses by visual (not so good and not foolproof) or by continuity using a mult-meter (good and foolproof)?

I checked them visually the first time, and by swapping a spare in the second time. And in a moment, by continuity per your suggestion. ;-p

The ignition switch is item number 26 on this fiche. http://www.babbittsonline.com/suzuki-mo ... 650A_(2007)/WIRING_HARNESS_(AN650AK6%2f%2fAK7%2f%2fAK8)/06160004/5606160039.

The contacts you will need to test are on the left end of it in the drawing.

And yeah, I can see where taking the cowling off might be handier to get back there and see what you're doing. Glad the service manual covers what/how to test.

[Redbeard]

By the ignition switch I am talking about the switch you put the key into.

There was a service bulletin about the ignition switch but I believe it was for the 04 model.

'04 and '03 models.

[CalvinFold]

Okay, I got at the back of the ignition switch, found the chart on 10-35, and also found not all the colors match. :-/ For example, there is no (Br)own or (O)range/(G)reen (or Grey or anything else starting with a G).

Also says (R)ed, and I'm assuming that's the one heavier wire that is heavily insulated and I can't see what color without opening-up the protective plastic sheathing/harness. ;-p

If, when looking at the switch, you were to label the contacts...

1-2-3
4-5-6

...any chance anyone can tell me the three combos that should have continuity?

I think I figured out the first two tests based on the above, and zero continuity.

Also two other observations:

--1, 4, and 5 position's contacts had a powdery dust all over them that looked like it was attracted by static electricity, but blew right off with some canned air. The other three spades were clean.

--2, which I think is the power lead: on the switch side there is evidence that it's been over-hot...the white plastic at the base of the spade was blackened; on the socket side the plastic above the #2 connection looked slightly melted (it was flattened a bit compared to the plastic around the other openings) in about the same place as the blackened area switch-side. What electrical knowledge I do have makes me wonder if the power lead was overheating (short?).

Sound like evidence of switch go bye-bye?

[Redbeard]

Kevin, I don't have a switch handy to look at right now, but I think I can translate the colors your seeing.

The chart on 10-35 is showing you the internal "Ignition Switch" Side and your seeing at the Harness Side of the Plug's colors.

Harness Side of Plug <> Ignition Switch Side

B <> R
B/R <> O
O/Y <> O/B
B/W <> B/W
B/Lg <> O/G
B/Br <> Br

Hope this helps.

-Dave

[CalvinFold]

Helped alot, thanks!

RESULTS:
On my multimeter, no continuity reads "OL" and continuity reads "0.00." Other ground tests have been very black-n-white in this regard...one or the other, no in-between.

On the O/B-B/W test (second item in chart on 10-35) for the ignition switch, the multimeter read "0.04"...what does this mean?

The other three tests had normal/correct continuity.

[Redbeard]

I wouldn't be too concerned with the 0.04 reading. All that pair does is send a ground to the ECM/PCM to let it know you've turned on the switch. That would not cause the no power but clock that you're seeing.

The B <> R / B/R <> O pair are the ones that feed power to the "signal fuse". If no power is reaching the fuse it would cause what your seeing.

Try two tests:

Plug the ignition switch harness plug back in. (I'm assuming battery is still connected)
Place you meter on DC volts

Test 1:
Place the Red meter lead on the B <> R wire and the Black meter lead on the B/R <> O wire
With the ignition switch OFF I would expect to see 12V on the meter display and 0V when the ignition switch is turned on.

Test 2:
With ignition switch ON and the Black meter lead on the battery ground, touch the red lead to both sides of of the signal fuse. I would expect 12V on both sides.
(there should be little windows on the top of the fuse to let you probe each side from the top)

Let us know the results.

[CalvinFold]

The B <> R / B/R <> O pair are the ones that feed power to the "signal fuse". If no power is reaching the fuse it would cause what your seeing.

Try two tests:

Plug the ignition switch harness plug back in. (I'm assuming battery is still connected)
Place you meter on DC volts

Test 1:
Place the Red meter lead on the B <> R wire and the Black meter lead on the B/R <> O wire
With the ignition switch OFF I would expect to see 12V on the meter display and 0V when the ignition switch is turned on.

So I assumed you mean to put the probes in through the backside of the harness connector.

PASSED = I saw exactly what you expected...12v OFF, 0v ON.

Test 2:
With ignition switch ON and the Black meter lead on the battery ground, touch the red lead to both sides of of the signal fuse. I would expect 12V on both sides.
(there should be little windows on the top of the fuse to let you probe each side from the top)

FAILED = I saw 0v on both sides.

Next?
(and once again, thanks for walking me through this)

[Redbeard]

Do any of the following work with the ignition ON?

Windshield goes up and down and the mirrors retract
There is power in the cigarette plug in the glove compartment
Pressing the flash to pass lights up the high beams
Brake lights work

Repeat test #1 this time connecting the black lead of the meter to a B/W wire (ground). Ignition Off there should be 12V on only one of the 2 wires, with it On there should be 12V on both.

Try the same test #2 for the signal fuse on the Ignition Fuse near it. They are both powered from the same source. If that ones not getting power then there would appear to be an open somewhere between the ignition switch and the fuse box.

[CalvinFold]

Do any of the following work with the ignition ON?

Windshield goes up and down and the mirrors retract
There is power in the cigarette plug in the glove compartment
Pressing the flash to pass lights up the high beams
Brake lights work

Windscreen = no
Cigarette plug = how would I check?
Flash to pass = fairing and headlights currently removed, but headlights (hi/lo) not working before fairing removal
Brake lights = no

Near as I can tell, except for the dash clock, NOTHING has power.

Repeat test #1 this time connecting the black lead of the meter to a B/W wire (ground). Ignition Off there should be 12V on only one of the 2 wires, with it On there should be 12V on both.

Not sure how there can be a "both" per your description. So here is what I tested:

The ignition switch still plugged into harness: red lead of MM into back of B<>R, black lead of MM into back of B/W:

Ignition ON = 0v
Ignition OFF = 5v

Try the same test #2 for the signal fuse on the Ignition Fuse near it. They are both powered from the same source.

0v on both sides.

If that ones not getting power then there would appear to be an open somewhere between the ignition switch and the fuse box.

So is this the going diagnosis at this point? If so, where do I need to start looking?

[CalvinFold]

EUREKA!
Well sorta...I found the problem, not sure they best way to fix it.

Was rechecking the battery and ground connections as well as my own splices for accessories, etc. and I jostled a wire near the battery and everything lit up! Scared the crap outa me at fist. ;-p

Near that white connector near the battery, the one that connects the battery negative to the harness, is a similar BLACK connector that is apparently a power connector for the harness...thicker red wire leading to the same harness.

Two things wrong with it:

--The wire has been pinched a bit about 1/2" back from the battery-side of the connector. Insulation hasn't broken, and I don't think the wire is, so might be ugly but okay, but not sure.

--The connector itself is a mess inside. Looks like corrosion of some sort, reminds me of the corrosion you see on battery terminals on a car. Both sides of the connector have been bent about 10° inside the connector as if they were subjected to a twisting force. I think the bent connection is the cause of the power loss: hold the connector snug and just the right way, the bike has power, let it loose, bike lose power.

The problem is how to fix it...there is basically ZERO slack on both ends of the cable, so just cutting the wires back and putting on a new connector seems out of the question. I could pry the casing off the connector (the plastic shell) and simply reconnect and wrap it in electrical tape (making it more-or-less a permanent connection). I could get a length of wire and create a 2-sided jumper (instead of one connector there would be some length of wire with something like a barrel connector at each end).

I dunno, only ideas that leap to mind. Would take all suggestions, as well as where to buy parts for the repair. Please bear in mind I'll need to mail-order, as past experience says the local hardware and auto parts stores won't have what I need, and Radio Shack doesn't carry a good selection of components anymore. Yes it really is that bad, I go through this explanation every time I do home-brew repairs. ;-p

I have a small collection of barrel, Hitachi, and Posi-lok connectors, but they were bought with the small thickness wire in mind (accessories...blue and red connectors), and this wire looks on the heavier side...not sure what I have would be appropriate. Same with the wire, think the wire I have is the wrong gauge for this operation.

Well, at least I can put 50% of the bodywork back on now. ;-p

[CalvinFold]

ADDENDUM:

Went down and took a closer look at the connector...the harness-side connector is intact, but with the spade/male end not square in the connector, bent about 5-10°. Spade looks fairly clean, wiring exiting the connector looks good. I can even see the wire ends at the back of the connector where they are crimped into the spade, and the wires are shiny. So no burns or anything.

The battery-side of the connector is a mess. This side has been very hot at some point, as when I tried to rotate the female connector, half the shroud was brittle and broke-off in my hand. Some of the shroud had melted against the connector and is fused to it.

This side seems to go straight back to the positive side of the battery, so in theory could be completely bypassed by a new lead.

Recommendations?

[Buffalo]

That wire would be the one that provides all the power to your bike except for the current that goes directly to the starter motor. It is the positive side of the wiring harness and the black ground wire with the white plug is the negative.

You say the plug shows signs of burning and melting and you also said your ignition switch showed signs of burning and melting. That sounds very much like you had a short somewhere in your system at some point. It might be worth looking around and seeing if you can spot where that might have been.

[CalvinFold]

Already did, didn't see anything else--and this is like my third glance around the system. Didn't see anything else burned, damaged, shorted, exposed, etc. My last pass included an inspection of all the wiring around my own connections like Posi-taps and such. Everything looked okay, no burns, no wires exposed or touching what they shouldn't, etc.

At this point, was planning to re-assemble all the bodywork with the exception of the left side body panel. I had it removed for the R/R replacement and it allows better access to the harness-side of the damage connector.

Which brings up two questions:

--Should I still have the ignition switch replaced pre-emptively, or since the burning/melting doesn't seem to have caused functional harm, leave it alone?

I'm in the camp of leaving it at the moment, it's an expensive part and going to be expensive labor by the looks (not to mention a new ignition key not matched to the gas cap, etc.). Externally at least, the damage is superficial (very, very minor...either a one-time event or hadn't been going on long).

--Specifically how to fix the damaged connection to the positive side of the harness. You have any recommendations?