Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders? - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Took a nice four hour day trip today in great weather - a nice break from the daily commute on the Burgman.

Back in May, I had some 19 gram sliders installed. After reading on the forum that others had knocked off the sharp edges of the plate during the installation, and in so doing, had not had the problem others had had. Some of you didn't knock off the sharp edge and it dug into the sliders and gradually reduced the weight whereupon you lost the advantages of the heavier weight. I had the work done at the local dealership - and even gave the mechanic a copy of the parts with instructions to pass a file over the edge a few times.

Since most of my riding is daily commuting (stop and go with some highway stretches) but not extended cruising as I did today. I noticed that when I first installed the sliders, the RPM was about 5,200 at indicated 70 mph. Perfect. Today, most of the time 70 indicated was a thousand RPM higher - at 6,200.

The first suspect was the sliders, of course. But, some other things happened that made me wonder. By the way - the trip was on very flat terrain. (There aren't any hills in deep south Texas - just a few places that are a few feet higher than others.)

* Sometimes, I would be a 70mph and 6,200rpm - then a car would pass and I would be in dirty air - and the RPM would lower to 5,500 or so. It was more than the drafting affect because the lower RPM would last a lot longer than the dirty air. Five minutes might go by before the RPM went back up.

* A couple of times, for no discernible reason, the RPM would change - maybe drop 800 rpm.

* I wondered if I was just riding into the wind - if that was causing the higher RPM. NO - checked it. In fact, it didn't seem to have much affect either way.

* My gas mileage has dropped a little as of late - maybe 2-3 mpg.

Otherwise, the scoot ran fine, though I have noticed a little vibration at 6,000 - the kind that comes and goes in waves. Nothing bad - just never noticed it before.

Most of you will state the obvious and tell me to look at the sliders - something I cannot do but will entrust to my Friendly Local Burgman Mechanic - otherwise known on this forum as BigPhillip79. Anything else you can think of besides the sliders?
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

My first thought is that one or more of the sliders could be rotating around instead of staying flat. It's a well documented fact that if you don't hold the backing plate (the plate you take off to install the sliders) tight against the inside half of the variator (don't remember if it's the stationary or the movable face) when you install it, you run the risk of a slider (or several) rotating around.

Take it for another spin. If it keeps happening, then pull the variator and check for a rotated slider.

Let us know what you find.


Bruce
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It's SO time for another long road trip!!! - like THAT'S ever going to happen now.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Doug, my DPS weights will change like yours do. In my case, I can attribute it usually to a rise in the road (gradual, not abrupt), or heading into a headwind. When I get to a no-load situation (no head wind, and not noticeable inclination to the road surface), I notice they will drop back down like yours.

Sometimes the rise in the road is so slight that it isn't readily apparent. Maybe that's it?

How long has it been since someone has cleaned out the variator from dust buildup?

Chris
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happytech
My first thought is that one or more of the sliders could be rotating around instead of staying flat. It's a well documented fact that if you don't hold the backing plate (the plate you take off to install the sliders) tight against the inside half of the variator (don't remember if it's the stationary or the movable face) when you install it, you run the risk of a slider (or several) rotating around.

Take it for another spin. If it keeps happening, then pull the variator and check for a rotated slider.

Bruce
Thanx, Bruce. I assume that if a slider is rotating, that would account for the variations of RPM is experienced at the same speed.

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Originally Posted by Daboo
Doug, my DPS weights will change like yours do. In my case, I can attribute it usually to a rise in the road (gradual, not abrupt), or heading into a headwind. When I get to a no-load situation (no head wind, and not noticeable inclination to the road surface), I notice they will drop back down like yours.

Sometimes the rise in the road is so slight that it isn't readily apparent. Maybe that's it?

How long has it been since someone has cleaned out the variator from dust buildup?

Chris
And thanx to you too, Chris.

I really doubt either the rise and fall of the road or the wind had anything to do with it. I first noticed the changes once I got out of the city and into the countryside. After I got to my destination and had a bite to eat, I was very watchful of variations in the road and wind as I rode back. You're correct about gradual rises (and this area is truly flat!), but I was cognizant of that. Also, the wind was stronger on the way home and I paid attention to it (flags, plastic on the barbed wire etc.) but again, going into the wind didn't seem to make much difference.

We'll check the dust buildup when we check for the rotating sliders.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by happytech
My first thought is that one or more of the sliders could be rotating around instead of staying flat. It's a well documented fact that if you don't hold the backing plate (the plate you take off to install the sliders) tight against the inside half of the variator (don't remember if it's the stationary or the movable face) when you install it, you run the risk of a slider (or several) rotating around.

Take it for another spin. If it keeps happening, then pull the variator and check for a rotated slider.
Bruce
Spot on, Bruce. When Mechanic Extraordinaire Phillip (otherwise known as as BigPhillip79 here on the forum) checked, two of the sliders were rotated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daboo
How long has it been since someone has cleaned out the variator from dust buildup?

Chris
You're right too, Chris - the variator was clogged with black fine dusty powder, some of which had caked on the outermost surface of the variator plate. Phillip seemed to think it was either graphite or some other unnecessary lubricant, but what ever caused all that dust really choked everything.

Any idea where the dust comes from?

But - my conclusion is that the installation was faulty. I had it done in May at the local dealership and I now doubt it was done correctly.

Thanx for the input, guys - and I am a happy scooterist again.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

The dust is from belt wear, I.e. normal. When I got my K3 with 12.3k miles I opened up the CVT to have a look and found a LOT of dust. I plan on pulling the cover and blowing it out with air each 2500 miles or so--though 2000 miles is the farthest I have gone so far without opening up the CVT anyway.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Cliff - I gotta hope that is not what has to be done. I bought this bike in late April and have put 5,000 miles on it since then. If I have to pull the plastic off and go through all the trouble of taking the variator apart every 2K miles, that hardly makes for a low maintenance machine. I would have had to do that twice already - and staring at a third time very soon.

Do any of the rest of you 400 owners blow out the dust at some sort of regular interval? Do you combine it with some other regular maintenance, such as changing the oil? If so, what are all the various opinions as to how often the variator needs to be taken apart and cleaned?
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

Doug, if you change the final drive oil when you change the engine oil, then you will have all the covers off to simply use some compressed air to blow all the dust out of the variator and clutch...without having to take them off. It isn't as thorough as taking the entire thing apart...but does a good enough job.

My approach on much of this has been to generally follow the maintenance schedule outlined in the owner's manual. I don't go taking things apart, just for the fun of it for two reasons. One, I'd rather be riding it. Two, there's always the chance I'll break something that was working perfectly fine till I messed with it. In the case of the final drive fluid, if I have the time when doing the oil change, I'll change that as well. If not, it'll do just fine till the next time...which is the interval in the maintenance schedule.

On the other hand, if I was finding something "wrong" when riding, I'd look into it.

Chris
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

I bent up a "special" blow gun nozzle so that I might blow out the variator--not disassemble it, just pull the covers and blow it out as Chris stated...
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Increase of RPM at Speed - Sliders?

I don't think the dust he had in the variator was regular dust from belt and clutch wear, Everything was clean in the CVT except for in the variator with the sliders. What it really looks like is that the Suzuki mechanic used graphite to lube the sliders and didn't clean the variator good enough rather than putting the sliders in clean as required.
Unless all of the dust is sucked into the variator. Be nice if the ramp plate was sealed like on my old Helix and the rollers would stay clean. I'd imagine their scooter knowledge is pretty limited, especially with aftermarket parts.
All in all everything looked really good in the tranny.
We did change the final drive oil while we had everything apart.
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