Wells Fargo, WTF? - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Wells Fargo, WTF?

I was going to ask our American colleagues here, but, really, I would like to ask everyone who knows the story, if that white-haired dude - who is at the head of that Wells Fargo group of cheats and swindlers - is still walking free? And if so, why? How? Why is there no hue and cry to get him immediately behind bars?

The current Republican administration could/would/should impress the nation and the world by putting him behind bars immediately. In one of those privately run prisons in Arizona. No air conditioning. No golf course. Just big rocks needing to be made smaller. (I mean, since they can no longer, hang, draw and quarter transgressors of this magnitude of unscrupulous.)

And then they could round up the rest. This situation begs for an example to be made and a bar to be set.

Where is the Make-Wall-Street-responsible? Where is the "You're fired! Do not pass go. Go straight to jail!"

My Two Cents
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 06:31 AM
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agreed, but no law was broken, so no legal punishment is available, if moral failure was punishable, a certain president would have been held responsible for having banks make loans to people with no ability to to repay them, and the housing bubble mess would not have happened, but as bad as we are, it still seems the U.K. US and Australia, still have more people wanting to get in than get out, except for thiose in australia being chased by their natural flora and fauna which is scary and always trying to kill them

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:00 AM
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Actually, a law was broken. Sarbanes-Oxley specifies that a Corporation must have a culture that prevents encouragement of law breaking - in other words, you can't have practices in place that incentive breaking the law. Giving employees preferential treatment based on secondary sales is one of those. However, the culture is so wide-spread that prosecuting anyone for this is a lost cause. Have you ever wondered why the checkout person at your favorite big box store always asks you if you have their credit card? Technically, that is a violation of SOX, but it's never enforced because it is such a part of retail culture that it is accepted as a defacto (and even required) behavior. The other area Wells Fargo broke the law was in using a whistle blower hotline as a way to actually track and fire people who complained about the illegal practices. Low, but hard to prove. As a fired employee, you've already been blacklisted by that company. Testifying against them in court will provide you with a lifetime ban on being employed by just about anyone subject to regulatory oversight. No-one likes spies, and you never trust a double agent.

The broader truth is that prosecuting the people at the top is very difficult. They have the best lawyers, they can drag out the process for years, and it's hard to get people on the jury without expertise in these areas to understand the laws that were broken. Furthermore, working for the government is mostly a way to get a good job in the private sector, usually with one of the companies you're regulating. Would you want to prosecute someone who could control your access to a six or seven-figure salary when you're done being in the government?
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mikeyMarine View Post
a certain president would have been held responsible for having banks make loans to people with no ability to to repay them...
...which is fine, so long as people who took loans with no ability to repay them get the same punishment.


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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:56 AM
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...which is fine, so long as people who took loans with no ability to repay them get the same punishment.
when you have nothing and want nothing bad enough to work for it, having something given to you gratis and then losing it is not a punishment, it's just free while you have it and gone when it's gone .
our current CinC plans to make america great again, I wonder if a silk purse can me made of a sow's ear

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 01:12 PM
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when you have nothing and want nothing bad enough to work for it, having something given to you gratis and then losing it is not a punishment, it's just free while you have it and gone when it's gone .
Right.

Being put on a chain gang for five years picking up trash and doing other menial labour that serves the public good will change that equation.


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 03:28 PM
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In the U.S. of A. we have the best politicians MONEY CAN BUY . We have gone from an industrial economy to a speculation economy with a willing central bank , a bought legislature who does the bidding for corporate lobbyist , and a military who looks for wars to start . Growing up and old in the U.S. , in my wildest dreams did I ever think this could happen in this country , but sadly it has .


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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:46 PM
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In total agreement here : Suzuki needs to bring back shiny paint and HONDA makes a better bike!

Also, your scooter pictures are not loading for me.....what gives?


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...or is this youtube?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:25 PM
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In the U.S. of A. we have the best politicians MONEY CAN BUY . We have gone from an industrial economy to a speculation economy with a willing central bank , a bought legislature who does the bidding for corporate lobbyist , and a military who looks for wars to start . Growing up and old in the U.S. , in my wildest dreams did I ever think this could happen in this country , but sadly it has .


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I see what you did there, and it was funny


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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 02:56 AM
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agreed, but no law was broken, so no legal punishment is available, if moral failure was punishable, a certain president would have been held responsible for having banks make loans to people with no ability to to repay them, and the housing bubble mess would not have happened,
....
That's not quite how it happened.
There was nothing at all in the law forcing anyone to make bad loans to anyone.
The only requirement was that lenders could not discriminate on the basis of race, either by denying loans or charging higher interest rates on that basis alone. The problem was that proving that loan refusals or high rates were based on financial fundamentals and not discrimination meant red tape, documentation, and lawsuit defense. The solution was to direct everyone possible into liar-loans and hand them out like candy, both because the paperwork was simpler ("we don't discriminate, we fund everyone!") and because they were far more profitable. For what it's worth, the loans covered by the law actually failed less often than similar loans not covered by it.

And once they'd resold the loans to brokerages who bundled them up with insurance against default, they were off the hook for the risks. The brokerages were buying loans faster than they could be made, because by attaching the insurance and selling them on to investors in bulk, they had the risk hedged (or so everyone thought) and were making money hand over fist on these supposedly safe investment vehicles. The insurers (AIG, for example) didn't account for the possibility of entire regional housing markets collapsing, and didn't keep adequate reserves -- they weren't required to do so.

Lots of blame to go around. The overextended homebuyers were probably the least culpable -- lenders knew the risks far better than they did, and it's not a stretch to believe your lender when they tell you that you're good for a loan even when you're not sure about it yourself. And everyone knew real estate always goes up and you'd be able to refinance before the balloon payments kick in -- worst case, you could sell it and take the profits. Well, until the bubble popped, prices crashed, and refinancing became unavailable anyhow.
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Last edited by Rusty J; 03-03-2017 at 03:06 AM.
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