Does anyone feet steer? - Page 3 - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Bluebottle, I like your explanation. It is rather elegant and reasons why handlebar counter steering is very effective, while still allowing some explanation of why weight transfer might influence it as well.

We learn something new everyday.

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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 10:35 AM
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You gotta be really really short to get your feet up there on the grips to steer!!
But have seen guys in India laying back on the seat and steering with their feet.....so, it probably is legal in California.
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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 01:24 PM
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Your feet can do a lot to change a bikes attitude, look at moto cross, their feet are working more then their hands.
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 04:12 PM
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Bluebottle, I like your explanation. It is rather elegant.....
Thanks Liamjs, I have an unfair advantage as I get paid to know about dynamics (but get abuse for giving the same info for free - what a weird world)

You are correct about speed being key to handling differences between a pedal and motorcycle ( also geometry and tyre cross section).


Don't worry about whether counter steer or weight transfer cause the turn - it is more that they enable the turn because they initiate a lean.
A turn without a lean is called a crash so its important.

When you are going straight the bits of tyre that touch the road make a cylinder and it rolls straight -
But lean a motorcycle tyre and the bit of tyre touching the road has a bigger radius on the outside of the turn than the bit on the inside - it becomes a cone.
Cones don't roll straight, they follow a curve

As somebody already said the extreme weight shift used in racing is largely to keep the bike more upright compared to where the weight is.

Off road bikes are different because you carry the weight on your pegs and on controllable articulated linkages called legs.
Weight shifting is much easier.

The no BS bike isn't hard empirical data.
Its a bit like saying that red lights slow you down because I welded my brake levers so that the red light didn't come and now I can't stop.
Proof that red lights slow you down
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Last edited by Bluebottle; 03-31-2016 at 04:20 PM.
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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 06:37 PM
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http://www.sportrider.com/body-posit...ing-techniques

This article talks about using downward pressure with your legs in turns.

Insert comment here.
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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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http://www.sportrider.com/body-posit...ing-techniques

This article talks about using downward pressure with your legs in turns.
Great article. Confirmed a lot of what I was "feeling" when trying it the past few weeks. Thanks.

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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-31-2016, 09:16 PM
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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-01-2016, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluebottle View Post
.....
The no BS bike isn't hard empirical data.
Its a bit like saying that red lights slow you down because I welded my brake levers so that the red light didn't come and now I can't stop.
Proof that red lights slow you down
LOL

Try with arguments next time.
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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-01-2016, 05:30 AM
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OK, lets use the video

If countersteering causes the bike to turn, why does the rider stop countersteering during the turn?
The bike is still turning but there is no countersteer and the rider is actually steering into the curve normally.

Countersteer initiates a change in lean angle - it isn't what turns the bike.

Secondly, with the riders hands on the fixed bars the bike is free to automatically correct any disturbance to its balance.

This is why the rider in the video isn't having much effect by shifting his weight.

When the rider shifts his weight the bike briefly leans and then steers the front wheel to correct itself - you can see it happen when the pointer is shown.

The weight change is being counteracted because the rider isn't holding the bars.

This proves that bike geometry is very good at keeping things upright if you allow it to.
It doesn't prove that weight transfer isn't involved in normal steering.

Countersteering is very effective but the video contains a lot of "confirmation bias"
For a complete description of what happens search for Prof Vittore Cossalter and motorcycle dynamics.

I apologise in advance if the complex maths makes your ears bleed but after a certain point you can't avoid it.
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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-01-2016, 09:49 AM
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Great video.
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