Making tight turns - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Making tight turns

I've seen a couple of articles on making smaller U-turns with a motorcycle. See this month's, (Dec 2015) Rider magazine. But I have never seen an article about doing it on a scooter.
I feel fully confident riding my bike but can't seem to make small U-turns. Any suggestions?

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:13 PM
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Talked about in this thread:
650 Slow Speed Maneuvering Techniques

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:16 PM
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The rear brake is key... "Feathering the rear brake helps with slow turns while holding a little pressure on the throttle."

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:17 PM
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By they way, your model of bike is missing from your signature.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 02:04 PM
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Wheels are two gyroscopes balancing the bike weight, but when you slow down these two can not handle the bike weight at slow speeds so you have to use the engine as another gyroscope to balance the weight by giving it some throttle while holding the rear brake a little. This technique does not apply to any bike has it engine crankshaft fitted longitudinally.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 06:22 AM
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Gyroscopic affects have almost no influence, the bikes geometry and having constant smooth inputs are what make feathering the brake work.

At low speed, what you lose is the
a) ability to shift the bike underneath you quickly by steering
B) castor forces on the front wheel that automatically balance the bike.

The gyroscopic forces of the wheels and tyres are a few Newton Meters at the most. You could easily combat it with your little finger on the riders helmet. A large engine produces about 10% of that amount.

Dragging the brake regulates the engine input and clutch action to make things smooth so they don't unbalance you and place a constant force on the bikes geometry so that it self-corrects.

If gyroscopic effects were the significant stability factor this guy would be having a very different experience.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 06:28 AM
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Then explain the counter steering if the gyroscope has no effect.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 06:43 AM
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These two videos show the effect of the gyroscope even when no one riding the bike it can keep it's own balance:

this is the second one:

Another side effect is the tank slapper issue at high speeds:

Last edited by Hussein Adil; 11-12-2015 at 06:49 AM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 06:53 AM
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Countersteering moves the bike out from underneath you so you fall over in the opposite direction and into your turn.

The video shows that the bikes geometry will self correct it (that is why you have castor on the front end) and is the dominant factor in bike stability.
If gyroscopic effects were significant, the bike would have stayed down once it was down, (gyroscopes dont like change, they try to keep on doing what they are doing) geometry will stand it back up again.

Watch the front wheel in that second video. It over corrects a few times and the stabilises. Does that look like a castor img wheel or like a rock steady gyroscope ?

Tank slappers are also a geometry issue.
(Gyroscopic effects would prevent a tank slapper by holding the front wheel still).

There is always an element of precession and gyroscopic stability but it isn't as big as most people think. If it was you would not be able to steer the bike out of a straight line once you got up to speed.

You can calculate the forces mathematically to prove it

Last edited by Bluebottle; 11-12-2015 at 07:16 AM.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-12-2015, 07:22 AM
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I understand from you that the rider is mostly using his body to balance the bike.
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