New 2014 Honda Forza 300 Scooter - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #1 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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New 2014 Honda Forza 300 Scooter

The new 2014 Honda Forza 300 scooter is soon to hit the US shores.

http://powersports.honda.com/2014/forza.aspx

2013 NC700X 82mpg average
2005 Silverwing 600 5k miles
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2005 Burgman 650, DarkSide Federal Formosa FD1, 165/60R14 75H, 460 treadwear 1K Miles
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post #2 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 04:13 PM
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I like the looks of this bike. Might be the perfect balance for city/hwy use. Not a long distance tourer but a good city/weekend trip bike. I don't like the looks of the short windscreen....hope the after-market picks up on this bike.

If this bike turns out to be a dud, then a Burg 400 is the next in line for me.
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post #3 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 03:51 AM
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I note the bike uses an 'offset cylinder/crank' design too. Very innovative. Very efficient.
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post #4 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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I note the bike uses an 'offset cylinder/crank' design too. Very innovative. Very efficient.
I don't see where this is mentioned on the Honda site. What is it and why is it good?
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post #5 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 01:01 PM
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In a net shell, heres my take on crankshaft design on parallel twins. In most parallel twins there are two types of firing orders, type 1 and type 2. In type 1, both pistons are up at the same time and then fire together, like a big single cylinder, one fire every 720 degrees of rotation.... In a type 2, both pistons are up at the same time but the camshaft and ignition are 180 degrees apart so it fires twice in that same 720 degrees, kind of, sort of.....

There are some parallel twins that the pistons are split, one up and one down but this takes more dynamic balancing of the parts. Ether counter weights, balance shafts or both are required. These engines have that Harley V-twin sound, "Thud..Thud....................Thud..Thud......... .."

In a "OFF SET" crankshaft you can phase the connecting rods pins off a bit +/- so the engine is firing a bit closer together or farther apart to "TUNE" the power band where you need it. But now you must design in extra counterweights to balance it out and add more balance shafts too.

There is the dynamic balancing of the rotating mass and then firing order balancing too. Mostly they play with firing order balancing on production engines. Single cylinders are very un-balanced. Then the V-twins are about as bad, parallel twins are getting better balanced and so on....

Everything is normally timed off cylinder 1. That is why a 12 cylinder "Boxer" engine is so SMOOOOOOOTH, many pistons are off set from each other.....

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Last edited by Dave_J; 08-04-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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post #6 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 02:15 AM
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In a net shell, heres my take on crankshaft design on parallel twins.
Sorry but what has this to do with the Forza?
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post #7 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 03:03 AM
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I note the bike uses an 'offset cylinder/crank' design too. Very innovative. Very efficient.
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Sorry but what has this to do with the Forza?
What I did not know is it, the 279cc Forza is a single cylinder. Not sure why the comment on off set cylinder/crank means. You can not offset a single cylinder from something not there. It takes 2 or more cylinders to offset one or more cylinders.

"Never mount a passenger car tire on a motorcycle rim; the flat profile of a car tire is incompatible ....." TOTALLY HOG WASH!!!

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On a Achilles ATR-K Economist 155/65 HR 14,
Prior GT Radial Champiro VP1 185/60 HR 14, Potenza RE92 165/65 SR 14 and 155/65 HR 14 Formosa D2

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Last edited by Dave_J; 08-05-2013 at 03:11 AM.
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post #8 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 04:56 AM
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Blackcat, there has been considerable information released by Honda about it's design. The previous Forza used an offset cylinder design too. You can do a search and I'm sure it will show up.

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What I did not know is it, the 279cc Forza is a single cylinder. Not sure why the comment on off set cylinder/crank means. You can not offset a single cylinder from something not there. It takes 2 or more cylinders to offset one or more cylinders.
Dave, you have good information but you are talking about the differing crankshaft configurations applicable to various engine types. Not offset cylinder to crank design. Yeah...it's confusing isn't it!

The Honda Forza uses offset cylinder design to improve engine wear, torque, fuel economy and various other engine characteristics. Many other engines are now beginning to use this design too. Cars and bikes. I've just finished an engine project which also used this type of design. As mentioned above it has many advantages. Here is a diagram showing the principle of the design.

Attachment 14625

This type of design, as some of you will know, is not new and was used in the previous Forza. But in the past it has been used mainly in more specialist engines, mostly. The advantages were always there but were not considered enough to warranty it's use enmass. But now that's changing quickly. Now with engine technology and the use of better materials, the need to reduce friction inside the engines, get better engine life, better power and emissions/fuel mileage etc etc, it's starting to be incorporated in quite a few engines and we will be seeing more and more engine using this design. Kawasaki use it in some engines and many car manufacturers here is 'Urop' are using it. Honda obviously are using it. The engine design I was commissioned to work on uses it and as a result produces around 6% more power with that feature alone and around 5% better fuel economy.

You can see why. The main power stroke occurs at the point of best efficiency, where pumping forces are reduced and maximum use of the torque is made. This produces less engine wear, more power, more mpgs. In a normal engine, most engine wear in the cylinder occurs on the power stroke, ovaling the piston and bore, leading to less efficiency over time. Also wasting power and fuel. The reciprocating mass after the power stroke, although traveling out of line in the 'offset cylinder design' a bit farther than otherwise would be the case, wears the cylinder and crank less than normal. Vibration is not a problem either as was often muted in the past.

So it's all good! The Forza is a great engine. Honda have tuned it for good intermediate torque with lower overall top end power. It should go well though.

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Last edited by Quantum Mechanic; 11-08-2016 at 07:46 AM.
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post #9 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 05:27 AM
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Quantum Mechanic is right.

"Offset Cylinder" is the name of the design where the cylinder is offset from the centreline of the crank. The offfset is cylinder to crank, not cylinder to cylinder so it is perfectly possible for a single clinder (in fact more common).

It makes the secondary forces work for you instead of against you
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post #10 of 100 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 08:05 AM
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Over 400 lbs, only around 25 hp, and not much better mpg than a B400. Plus, not as good underseat storage. Despite having a higher price, the B400 should stay competitive and if Suzuki boosts its mpg, I might find myself back on one in the future.

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