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CVT Pulley Bolt

20K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  TheReaper 
#1 · (Edited)
Followed the advice here on the forum and replaced my bolt even though my second hand Burgman only has 4000 miles on it. I was very surprised at the amount of wear that the bolt has on it.
 
#2 ·
I changed out mine twice in 34,000 miles in my '04 and it looked much like yours. I haven't checked my '12 yet in 17000 miles but should next time I change oil. I had understood that the '12's didn't need changing as often. Should check it to find out I guess.
 
#4 ·
I changed out mine twice in 34,000 miles in my '04 and it looked much like yours. I haven't checked my '12 yet in 17000 miles but should next time I change oil. I had understood that the '12's didn't need changing as often. Should check it to find out I guess.
Bolt on 2012 is 2 or 2.2 ml longer than previous and bolt seat in pulley rework as well by Suzuki, please advise how it look when you check it. 2-3 photo would be good.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Followed the advice here on the forum and replaced my bolt even though my second hand Burgman only has 4000 miles on it. I was very surprised at the amount of wear that the bolt has on it.
WOW ! ! ! You not mention what year your burgie, new replacement bolt # 21748-10G10 that fit 2002 to 2009 is harder, read on couple of site in Europe it recommend you re-torque to 26 lb/ft torque every 1600-1800 mile and when perform oil change, change every 8000 - 9000 mile or so if it have more than small nick on bolt. They very inexpensive from Partzilla and few other on line store.

What all that brown stuff on bolt it look like it burn or something.
 
#7 ·
I changed mine at 9,000 and change and it had a couple good nicks in it. It is something I will definitely continue to monitor. It is nice that it is in an easy place to check it BUT it would be even better if Suzuki came out and really explained and put a service plan together for this. I am hoping my CVT last a a long time. I am not sure what else I can do to make sure that happens.
 
#9 ·
I didn't feel like ordering them, so I went to the hardware store and bought some class 8.8 bolts of the appropriate size and turned them to stopper bolt configuration. I increased the tip diameter .004" and increased the length .010"

Cost a buck and some play time at the lathe each.

 
#10 ·
I didn't feel like ordering them, so I went to the hardware store and bought some class 8.8 bolts of the appropriate size and turned them to stopper bolt configuration. I increased the tip diameter .004" and increased the length .010"

Cost a buck and some play time at the lathe each.
Looks awesome just hope it's not too hard and wears the adjuster end rather than the bolt. Stock they wear a little of both as shown in the photo.
 
#11 ·
Grade 8.8 bolts aren't particularly tough,..Rockwell~25.

I'm looking at your photo of the primary adjuster and it appears that the tip of the stopper bolt could extend much farther into the notch without interfering with anything.

I can't understand why Suzuki chose to have so little contact area from the stopper bolt.

I also don't understand why they chose to have a primary spline adapter that only engaged about 10mm of the mating splined hole on the 2003-2004 models.

And while I'm at it, I don't understand why they didn't make both the adjuster drum *and* the stopper bolt out of a grade of steel that was tough enough to take the stress that's being imposed on them without distortion.

As a toolmaker, I know a little bit about the qualities of various steels and the properties which can be applied to them through heat treating.

It's really not rocket science. There's a steel and a process for it that would eliminate the wear on those mating parts. Several, actually.
 
#12 ·
I'm looking at your photo of the primary adjuster and it appears that the tip of the stopper bolt could extend much farther into the notch without interfering with anything.

I can't understand why Suzuki chose to have so little contact area from the stopper bolt.

I also don't understand why they chose to have a primary spline adapter that only engaged about 10mm of the mating splined hole on the 2003-2004 models.

And while I'm at it, I don't understand why they didn't make both the adjuster drum *and* the stopper bolt out of a grade of steel that was tough enough to take the stress that's being imposed on them without distortion.
Actually no it can't, go measure the depth. the 2010 model they machined the notch up to the bearing race (you can see it in the updated assembly, I just don't have a photo handy) to get a 2mm longer stopper bolt in there.

Lots of things don't make any sense. Why not heat treat the splines? Why run the splines dry? Why not use a larger input bearing? Why not seal between the CVT case and engine case or cap where you have dry splines? Why have the adjuster end with 1/2" mating surface fitting into a aluminum case with nearly an 1" of mating surface? Why have a steel adjuster fit into a aluminum case that can vibrate and wear the mating surfaces? Why use a rubber o-ring (that can split and fall out of place allowing the adjust to vibrate easier) under a shim at the adjuster in case? I could go on.

Honestly there is little difference in spline contact between the old ('03-'04 and new ('05-current) just that they no longer use an adapter gear (a $100 easily replaceable part which didn't fail, instead it took out a $700 assembly which is a PITA to change)and the CVT input spline directly to the engine gear.

Given a choice between what you want to wear I'd that the easy bolt any day over that adjuster cause something is always going to wear.
 
#13 ·
Was the CVT purpose-designed for the AN650 or was it borrowed from another product such as a snowmobile or ATV? If I were the engineering manager at Suzuki I'd look for an existing CVT assembly to use (that economy-of-scale thing) before I thought of designing one from scratch. Using an existing design might explain some of the issues such as the primary pulley adapter.
 
#15 ·
#17 ·
I'd be curious to compare the gold one to the silver one for hardness. Somehow I doubt there is much difference.
 
#21 ·
MJR
Great pic that explained so much. Thank you for that. My bike seemed to have the new bolt but had some good dings in it at 9,000 so I will definitely keep an eye on it. IF it shows signs of wear again let me ask you this, do I pull my car out of the garage for a while and pull this thing apart? And I am sure I can do it after working on my bikes and muscle cars when younger, but I hope there is a streamlined way to fix this problem. I am worried about the plastic gear also, what do they do exactly and what should we be listening or feeling for before we are stranded on the side of the road???
 
#23 ·
My bike seemed to have the new bolt but had some good dings in it at 9,000 so I will definitely keep an eye on it. IF it shows signs of wear again let me ask you this, do I pull my car out of the garage for a while and pull this thing apart?

I am worried about the plastic gear also, what do they do exactly and what should we be listening or feeling for before we are stranded on the side of the road???
That's a good question. I would say it depends on the severity of the damage to the bolt and how quickly it got that way. This one had severe damage and had stripped gears/internal primary pulley damage (keys). Up to you how it feels if you want to do a exploratory on it. I plan to do that on my '09 because it's making some belt noise like my '03 did but it could end up being normal, just want to be sure.

I think cliffy's post covered the gears.

 
#24 · (Edited)
Just rolled over 10K on my 2007 Burgman 650. I bought it last year (2013) with only 2,300 miles. Just to be safe, I replaced the original CVT stopper bolt with a new one at 4K miles. It had only a small indentation (see photos below). Replaced with new 21749-10G10 part at 4K miles so the current one had 6K miles on it.

I've read where some Burgman owners have had their stopper bolts chewed up in less than 10K miles, but mine seems to be doing OK.




Original (replaced at 4K miles) and current one (at 10K miles: 6K miles of usage)




Original showed minor discoloration on one side at 4K miles.




Original had small indentation at 4K miles. Doesn't look serious enough to worry about, but I replaced it anyway since the new one is only $5.





Close-up of original at 4K miles.



Another view of original at 4K miles.





Current stopper bolt (new 21748-10G10 part #) with 6K miles of usage.






Another view of current stopper bolt with 6K miles of usage.




New one to be installed. I won't worry about checking this one for 10K miles or so.
 
#27 ·
It would be a black color.
 
#29 · (Edited)
This is what the one in the 2013 model at the MC show had and it's the same as my '03 with the updated assembly.



 
#30 ·
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
how can you tell if the bolt is a 2010 up, does it have a different marking on the top of the bolt without taking it out,

It would be a black color.

Another good thread! Such interesting and helpful folks. Great information share and inquiries.

Could someone either create a table/comparison, or direct me to one if exists ... a Summary of 2010 vs older bolt.
Markings, color, size, PART NUMBER DIFFERENT?, ...
interchangable?...?

21748 10G10 Pulley stopper bolt

Cheers my friends, and especially M!
 
#32 ·
Ok, so here is just a tad of Classification I was asking for (two posts up), provided from my moto shop.

It only gives the PN for the two bolts. John at National City Motorcycle confirmed that for our '09 is the old bolt, and for our '11 is the "new" one. (see pic) 21748-10G20

The info that is missing (from my request of a Summary, gentlemen), is differences and similarities of the bolts in table format. Color, size, head imprint, etc.

cheers,

Click thumbnail for larger version.
 

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#34 ·
Ok, so here is just a tad of Classification I was asking for (two posts up), provided from my moto shop.

It only gives the PN for the two bolts. John at National City Motorcycle confirmed that for our '09 is the old bolt, and for our '11 is the "new" one. (see pic) 21748-10G20

The info that is missing (from my request of a Summary, gentlemen), is differences and similarities of the bolts in table format. Color, size, head imprint, etc.
Simple. '03-'09 are either silver (earlier models 21748-10G00) or gold (later models 21748-10G10). The earlier silver ones supercede to the gold ones on all '03-'09 and are physically the same size.

The '11-up models use a black one (21748-10G20) that is approx. 2mm longer than the previous ones.

The silver/gold and black ones are not interchangeable. Earlier models ('03-'09) can only use the longer black bolt if the primary pulley assembly has been replaced with the updated one (comes with the new assembly). I have in the process of rebuilding the CVT on my '03 installed the updated assembly/stopper bolt and strongly recommend it to anyone rebuilding a CVT because of the improvements to it.
 
#33 ·
#36 · (Edited)
MOS1, this is the CVT stopper bolt and is located on the right side right under where your heel rests on the floor board.

Land vehicle Vehicle Motor vehicle Motorcycle Car


But on a 2006 and it seem only 2006 there is another bolt that needs attention. It is the primary adapter bolt. It has no thread locker and can loosen up and rattle around for a while till it busts thru its cover. The the CVT splines can strip causing major $$$ in repairs. For the cost of removing the bolt, cleaning the threads and a drop of Lock-Tight and re-torquing it down can save a bike. I will try to find a picture of it too. It is just to the back/rear side of the oil level site glass and the cover has two small bolts holding it on. Check post #3 of this topic. http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/109954-what.html

Read that one and this one to see: http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/117377-2006-primary-adapter-bolt-issue.html
 
#38 ·
At which model year is it safe to stop checking the stopper bolt? One would think Suzuki would have resolved this problem by now.
 
#39 ·
Stopper bolt SCHMOPPER BOLT it doesn't matter !

Stopper bolt SCHMOPPER BOLT it doesn't matter !

The bolt is not the problem , the design of the CVT is the problem . A banged up bolt to one degree or another is a sign your primary pulley is experiencing problems . That means this CVT's days are numbered to one degree or another . Some still think that keeping an eye on the bolt , and changing it when it gets banged up is a cure . All that will do is POSSIBLY delay the inevitable a day a week or a couple of weeks ......MAYBE !!!

Every one has heard the horror stories about the $4,000 dealer repair bill , and the 6 months it took them to do it . And they've heard about the rebuild that went bad a few days later . It doesn't have to be like that , as long as you are willing to get your hands dirty .

I've parted out several of these bikes now ,torn a couple of engines completely down to splitting the cases . I've torn several CVT's apart and have rebuilt 3 , and have come to some conclusions . IMHO the best way to go $$$$ for most , is when the blessed day arrives is find a low mile CVT off a wrecked bike . Then do the quick method of replacing the entire CVT . Around $500.00 and a days work for most , will get you back on the road .

If you want to keep your 650 Burgman for a long time , you would be much better off to quit looking for a magic bolt and start looking for a low mile CVT . There is no magic bullet , no easy button and the Burgman 650 is what it is . Except for a longer stopper bolt and a couple of extra keys on the primary pulley shaft , the new CVT is just like the old CVT . Will the new one last longer ? The answer IMO is maybe and maybe not . I recently pulled one of those "new ones" apart and found that who ever built it at the factory , didn't use enough RTV on the primary pulley O-ring . The result was the O-ring slipped out from under the shim , the vibration wore a groove in the case (case ruined). It destroyed the stopper bolt , and did considerable damage to the female side of that stopper bolt slot in the primary pulley . In other words in this CVT the NEW STUFF made NO DIFFERENCE !

Is there any thing you can do as far as preventive maintenance on the CVT ?

Not from the outside . If I had my bike apart for some reason , I would pull the CVT apart and clean it up and check it out for wear . I would FOR SURE replace the primary pulley O-ring and use RTV all the way around it . Then before putting it back together I would let the RTV cure for at least 24 hours , or even longer because it is so critical that it stay in place .

Every machine ever built has weak spots , whether it be a car , a bike or any really any thing mechanical . In other words this phenomenon is not Suzuki specific , overall I give Suzuki high marks for the Burgman 650 considering the price they sell for . And the fact that you can buy a low mile used one in the $3,000 range , IMO is a gift from the scooter gods . There are a few annoying things I don't like about the 650 Burgman like the CVT , but there are many many more things I love about these bikes .

TheReaper!
 
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