CVT Pulley Bolt - Page 2 - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-27-2014, 10:13 PM
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Grade 8.8 bolts aren't particularly tough,..Rockwell~25.

I'm looking at your photo of the primary adjuster and it appears that the tip of the stopper bolt could extend much farther into the notch without interfering with anything.

I can't understand why Suzuki chose to have so little contact area from the stopper bolt.

I also don't understand why they chose to have a primary spline adapter that only engaged about 10mm of the mating splined hole on the 2003-2004 models.

And while I'm at it, I don't understand why they didn't make both the adjuster drum *and* the stopper bolt out of a grade of steel that was tough enough to take the stress that's being imposed on them without distortion.

As a toolmaker, I know a little bit about the qualities of various steels and the properties which can be applied to them through heat treating.

It's really not rocket science. There's a steel and a process for it that would eliminate the wear on those mating parts. Several, actually.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA310 View Post
I'm looking at your photo of the primary adjuster and it appears that the tip of the stopper bolt could extend much farther into the notch without interfering with anything.

I can't understand why Suzuki chose to have so little contact area from the stopper bolt.

I also don't understand why they chose to have a primary spline adapter that only engaged about 10mm of the mating splined hole on the 2003-2004 models.

And while I'm at it, I don't understand why they didn't make both the adjuster drum *and* the stopper bolt out of a grade of steel that was tough enough to take the stress that's being imposed on them without distortion.
Actually no it can't, go measure the depth. the 2010 model they machined the notch up to the bearing race (you can see it in the updated assembly, I just don't have a photo handy) to get a 2mm longer stopper bolt in there.

Lots of things don't make any sense. Why not heat treat the splines? Why run the splines dry? Why not use a larger input bearing? Why not seal between the CVT case and engine case or cap where you have dry splines? Why have the adjuster end with 1/2" mating surface fitting into a aluminum case with nearly an 1" of mating surface? Why have a steel adjuster fit into a aluminum case that can vibrate and wear the mating surfaces? Why use a rubber o-ring (that can split and fall out of place allowing the adjust to vibrate easier) under a shim at the adjuster in case? I could go on.

Honestly there is little difference in spline contact between the old ('03-'04 and new ('05-current) just that they no longer use an adapter gear (a $100 easily replaceable part which didn't fail, instead it took out a $700 assembly which is a PITA to change)and the CVT input spline directly to the engine gear.

Given a choice between what you want to wear I'd that the easy bolt any day over that adjuster cause something is always going to wear.

'03 Coast Cyan Atlantic 500
'14 White MyRoad 700i
'09 Mirage White Burgman 650, Yoshi Carbon/Stainless Exhaust, Bazzaz Z-Scoot Fuel Control
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 rebuilt/upgraded CVT
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 another parts bike or project, CVT int failure
'05 Sonic Silver Burgman 650 body damaged, stripped down/rebuilding back up on hold
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650, rebuilt/upgraded CVT with Polish adapter
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650 parts bike, failed CVT splines/brg

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 09:29 AM
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Was the CVT purpose-designed for the AN650 or was it borrowed from another product such as a snowmobile or ATV? If I were the engineering manager at Suzuki I'd look for an existing CVT assembly to use (that economy-of-scale thing) before I thought of designing one from scratch. Using an existing design might explain some of the issues such as the primary pulley adapter.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 11:03 AM
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As far as I know the CVT in the 650 is unique to it and is not used anywhere else.

--- Craig AKA Cliffhanger----
"Big Red" 2007 Red Executive - 134,929 miles
"Little Blue" 2006 Blue 400S - 47,595 miles
"STING" 05 B650 gone but not forgotten, RIP

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 11:39 AM
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Same here. I believe the unit is too small to handle being even in a micro car.

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/gcm/bigheart/002.html

'03 Coast Cyan Atlantic 500
'14 White MyRoad 700i
'09 Mirage White Burgman 650, Yoshi Carbon/Stainless Exhaust, Bazzaz Z-Scoot Fuel Control
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 rebuilt/upgraded CVT
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 another parts bike or project, CVT int failure
'05 Sonic Silver Burgman 650 body damaged, stripped down/rebuilding back up on hold
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650, rebuilt/upgraded CVT with Polish adapter
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650 parts bike, failed CVT splines/brg

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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 05:09 PM
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I took the original stopper bolt from my 2003 and put it on the hardness tester at work.

It measured Rockwell 34. I was surprised to see it that high.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA310 View Post
I took the original stopper bolt from my 2003 and put it on the hardness tester at work.

It measured Rockwell 34. I was surprised to see it that high.
I'd be curious to compare the gold one to the silver one for hardness. Somehow I doubt there is much difference.

'03 Coast Cyan Atlantic 500
'14 White MyRoad 700i
'09 Mirage White Burgman 650, Yoshi Carbon/Stainless Exhaust, Bazzaz Z-Scoot Fuel Control
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 rebuilt/upgraded CVT
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 another parts bike or project, CVT int failure
'05 Sonic Silver Burgman 650 body damaged, stripped down/rebuilding back up on hold
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650, rebuilt/upgraded CVT with Polish adapter
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650 parts bike, failed CVT splines/brg

www.gotgroceries.net
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 05:49 PM
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I'd be curious to compare the gold one to the silver one for hardness. Somehow I doubt there is much difference.
Seeing how tough the original was got me thinking about the class 8.8 unit that I turned and have been running for 700 miles, so I just went out to the garage and took it out for inspection.

There's just a hint of a mark on it. If I hadn't been specifically looking for it I would have missed it.

The original stopper bolt that I replaced wasn't in very bad condition. I just wanted to install one of my own.

My bike is a 2003 model with 17,400 miles. 8000 miles ago I installed Milek's primary spline adapter.

Because of all of this, I'm of the opinion that a healthy CVT doesn't wear a stopper bolt too much. I'm not familiar enough with how everything ties together to have an opinion on "why",..but I believe that a severely chewed up stopper bolt is indicative of a problem in the CVT.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 06:00 PM
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Because of all of this, I'm of the opinion that a healthy CVT doesn't wear a stopper bolt too much. I'm not familiar enough with how everything ties together to have an opinion on "why",..but I believe that a severely chewed up stopper bolt is indicative of a problem in the CVT.
I came to that conclusion some time ago. As near as I can tell replacing a stopper bolt that is severely chewed up does not lengthen the time the CVT will go before it has a failure. The new bolt will likely just get chewed up in short order.

What a severely chewed up bolt does is tell you that there is something else going wrong inside the CVT that needs fixing.
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--- Craig AKA Cliffhanger----
"Big Red" 2007 Red Executive - 134,929 miles
"Little Blue" 2006 Blue 400S - 47,595 miles
"STING" 05 B650 gone but not forgotten, RIP

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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-28-2014, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSA310 View Post
The original stopper bolt that I replaced wasn't in very bad condition. I just wanted to install one of my own.

My bike is a 2003 model with 17,400 miles. 8000 miles ago I installed Milek's primary spline adapter.

Because of all of this, I'm of the opinion that a healthy CVT doesn't wear a stopper bolt too much. I'm not familiar enough with how everything ties together to have an opinion on "why",..but I believe that a severely chewed up stopper bolt is indicative of a problem in the CVT.
Nothing wrong with that and its good for us as a group to learn.

I did Milek's adapter when I rebuilt mine with the updated primary (comes with the long stopper bolt). A best buy for these older diesels, lol.

That's what the general consensus is here I believe. We think the o-ring that is under the shim against the adjuster splits and partially drops out allowing the adjuster to move/vibrate more wearing the bolt. I've seen a few of those be split and fall out of place when opening the CVT. It's also possible the anti-seize used on the adjuster dries out causing it to bind a bit.

'03 Coast Cyan Atlantic 500
'14 White MyRoad 700i
'09 Mirage White Burgman 650, Yoshi Carbon/Stainless Exhaust, Bazzaz Z-Scoot Fuel Control
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 rebuilt/upgraded CVT
'06 Oort Gray Burgman 650 another parts bike or project, CVT int failure
'05 Sonic Silver Burgman 650 body damaged, stripped down/rebuilding back up on hold
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650, rebuilt/upgraded CVT with Polish adapter
'03 Space Blue Burgman 650 parts bike, failed CVT splines/brg

www.gotgroceries.net

Last edited by MJR; 10-28-2014 at 06:14 PM.
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