Starting problems - Page 3 - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJR View Post
It's not unheard of to be the starter switch contacts. Sometimes people will squirt some WD40 in there.
Turns out my hearing is not as good as it once was! When I took of the engine cover and tried to start it, the noise actually was louder either within the area just below the relay or near it. Yes, I did bang on that starter a few times. When I put everything back together, click, click. SO now I will look for a new starter relay and possibly the sensor connector.

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Terry
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 01:19 PM
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just 4 giggles try jump starting it once, or have you already, new battery notwithstanding

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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 02:03 PM
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Post Tried to start my 2011 AN650

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Originally Posted by BUckeyegator View Post
When I was taking the starter relay that is mounted on the battery cover off, I unplugged the 2 wire sensor and proceeded to take the terminals off. I accidentally allowed the two leads to touch that are screwed into the terminals and it started to crank, even with the kickstand down and no brake applied. I am beginning to suspect the relay or the sensor wiring down to the starter. Is this a valid assumption????

Thanks,
Terry
Terry, I wonder why the He11 you are not listening to me? This is what I previously said to do:

"If it seems that the power is not getting through the starter relay, you can test it by bypassing it. Be careful of sparks because you will be dealing with over 100 amps. Use heavy metal , like the handles on a pair of pliers or a couple of big screwdrivers, watch for sparks, and short across the two large terminals of the starter relay. That will send battery current directly to the starter motor. If the motor does not turn then, its a loose wire or bad starter or the battery is dead."

Now, you wound up doing that test, but accidentally. You should NOT have taken any wires loose at all. I said to JUMP with HEAVY METAL between the TWO LARGE terminals on the STARTER RELAY. You accidentally did that and proved what I wanted to find out. Listen to what I am telling you, I am a master electrician and electrical engineer, and I know electricity. Everyone telling you to bang on your starter and checking your Battery is BS. When you shorted those two big wires together and the starter motor cranked the engine, that proved several things as Listed Below:
1. The the STARTER is Good.
2. The POWER WIRING and CONNECTIONS in the POWER CIRCUIT are Good.
3. The BATTERY is Good.
4. That the PROBLEM is in the CONTROL CIRCUIT!
SO QUIT WONDERING AND WORRYING about the STARTER, BATTERY and POWER CIRCUIT and FOCUS on the CONTROL CIRCUIT.
I can continue to try to help you only if you listen and do what I say. Successful Electrical Diagnosis can only be achieved by the application of a logical flowchart process.
Next I would verity that the clicking that you hear when you push the start button is NOT coming from the STARTER RELAY. Put one hand on the relay when you push the start button with the Key ON, Side stand UP, Kill Switch ON, and FEEL the relay to see if it clicks. If it DOES click and no start, then the problem is there in the relay. If it does NOT click, and the click is elsewhere, then the problem is elsewhere in the CONTROL CIRCUIT.
Try that and report back. If further diagnosis is needed, we will have to delve into the wiring diagram to sort out the wiring and relays to find the points to check.
Have you verified that ALL fuses are Good?
It still sounds like there is a loose connection or bad relay in the wiring.
To Be CONTINUED......................................... .....................................
Cheers!

Al in Sunny Tampa Bay Florida (St Petersburg)
2006 Burgman AN650 K6 White (The White Knight)
2008 Burgman AN400 K8 Red (The Red Baron)
1977 Honda CB 750 Silver
1977 Penneys 50 Moped Red
1974 Yamaha 360 MX Yellow
1973 Yamaha 80 MX Silver
1972 Honda QA 50 Red
1971 Kaw Bighorn 350 Enduro Brown
1970 Kaw H1 500 Red
1968 Kaw 120 Scrambler Red
1968 Kaw 120 Scrambler Blue
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Last edited by E.D.; 04-20-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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E.D. I appreciate your input, and I do know about electricity and control circuits having been an electronics technician in the Navy working on very high powered radars. In reality, I had no wiring diagrams and had no idea what this little sensor connector did, it temporarily confused the **** out of me. When I get a chance to get back to the scoot, I will let you know what happens when I do the test on the relay.

Terry
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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Also, E.D. I have read that there is a fuse box beneath the battery, but I have failed to locate it. Every fuse within site (CVT, etc on the left side of the bike are good. THese are 40 A fuses. Where else are the fuses located if not directly under the battery??

Terry
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:33 PM
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Terry, on the early model years the fuses were in two places, under a plastic cover next to the glovebox and the couple down by the seat on the left side. I think a 2011 is still there. The fuse panel under that cover is also the cover for the air filter.

"Never mount a passenger car tire on a motorcycle rim; the flat profile of a car tire is incompatible ....." TOTALLY HOG WASH!!!

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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:48 PM
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just 4 giggles try jump starting it once, or have you already, new battery notwithstanding
oops this is stupid egnor it

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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:27 PM
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oops this is stupid egnor it
WE DID!
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"Never mount a passenger car tire on a motorcycle rim; the flat profile of a car tire is incompatible ....." TOTALLY HOG WASH!!!

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160,000 miles on a CAR TIRE/DARKSIDE.

On a Achilles ATR-K Economist 155/65 HR 14,
Prior GT Radial Champiro VP1 185/60 HR 14, Potenza RE92 165/65 SR 14 and 155/65 HR 14 Formosa D2

***TRAVEL STOP*** Camp, tools, Wifi,.....
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:36 PM
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Terry, when or if you buy a DOM, buy a cheap probe test light too. Both work well but one will tell you real quick if you have any voltage, test light.

Put the clip on the battery neg post and put the probe tip in the small trigger wire on that starter relay, side stand up and kill switch to normal, turn it on, pull a break lever and push the start button. If the test light comes on you have a bad relay. But if not then we need to get down and dirty.

These Burgman's have a issue of the starter BUTTON gets gummed up. Squirting some WD 40 in sometimes will help but it is only a Band-Aid. A lot of us have had to pull the right switch housing apart to clean and replace the Di-Electric grease. But BEWARE, there are small parts and a spring inside. That spring will POP out and fly into the most hardest area to find and be lost for ever.

I think I got all that above typed right, between cooking dinner and sitting here listening to Iron Butterfly "HEAVY" and wishing I could be BAKED.

"Never mount a passenger car tire on a motorcycle rim; the flat profile of a car tire is incompatible ....." TOTALLY HOG WASH!!!

SSG/E6 Retired US ARMY Signal Corp. 9th Signal Bn, Forward.



160,000 miles on a CAR TIRE/DARKSIDE.

On a Achilles ATR-K Economist 155/65 HR 14,
Prior GT Radial Champiro VP1 185/60 HR 14, Potenza RE92 165/65 SR 14 and 155/65 HR 14 Formosa D2

***TRAVEL STOP*** Camp, tools, Wifi,.....

Last edited by Dave_J; 04-20-2017 at 05:46 PM.
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:19 AM
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Terry, the Big Navy Radar is not the same as this. This is WAY MORE complicated! Lol

I don't think there is any problem with the starter button on the right handlebar because you get the click when you push it. That tells me that the switch is working, at least good enough to let current through. The click is coming from a relay. The relay is working or trying to work. it may be working and letting power through, but a bad connection stops the current flow. Or the relay may be trying to work and not letting current through.

Dave_J mentioned the simple TEST LIGHT. It is a most valuable tool, and is what you need the most to test this kind of problem. You connect the clip to ground or negative battery post, then when you touch the tip to a live contact, it lights up. It tests for the presence of electricity. You will have to trace the control circuit point by point with the TEST LIGHT, to follow the path of the circuit, until you get to the point in the circuit where the power is lost, and there will be your problem.
The side stand relay, when energized, connects ground to one side of the Starter Relay control coil. The other side of the Starter Relay control coil is fed HOT thru the ignition switch, either brake switch, and the Start Button. The Side stand Relay is fed Hot by the Ignition Switch, Fuse and Engine Kill Switch, Then the other side of the Side Stand Relay Control Coil is connected to ground thru the Side Stand Switch.

So the Sequence of Operation is:
Turn key on, the power splits two ways, Path A and Path B.

Path A power goes to the fuse and engine Kill Switch,
Path A power then goes to the control coil of the Side Stand Relay,
Path A power then goes thru through the side stand switch and on to ground.

Path B power goes to the brake switches.
Path B power then goes to the starter Button,
Path B power then goes to the Starter Relay Control Coil
Path B power then goes through the contacts of the Side Stand Relay,
Path B power then goes to ground.

You need to test for the presence of electricity at all points along these two paths. When you find the point where the power is interrupted, there is your problem.

See Service manual page 10-11.

Check your Brake circuits, be sure that the brake lights come on when either brake lever is pulled.

There you go. Is it all clear now?
Cheers!

Al in Sunny Tampa Bay Florida (St Petersburg)
2006 Burgman AN650 K6 White (The White Knight)
2008 Burgman AN400 K8 Red (The Red Baron)
1977 Honda CB 750 Silver
1977 Penneys 50 Moped Red
1974 Yamaha 360 MX Yellow
1973 Yamaha 80 MX Silver
1972 Honda QA 50 Red
1971 Kaw Bighorn 350 Enduro Brown
1970 Kaw H1 500 Red
1968 Kaw 120 Scrambler Red
1968 Kaw 120 Scrambler Blue
As far as the cages go, I've had all kinds,
but Toyota's Rule, no doubt!
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Last edited by E.D.; 04-21-2017 at 03:26 AM.
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