WA - HB1157 Lane Splitting 2017 - Page 3 - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 11:32 AM
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So size doesn't matter? Volvo vs a 10 speed in a crash, who wins? Saying we're all the same out on the road is just not true.
You know that I was referring to who has to follow the rules of the road. A Huge semi tractor trailer rig with 3 trailers has to use turn signals and stay within the lane just as a 2 wheeled bicycle driven by little johnny.

And I'd much rather stay in a driver's line of sight than in his blind spot.

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You mentioned that we, as motorcyclist, are taught to position ourselves so we are most visible to cars/trucks. True. This is one method, one tool as it were, we use to keep ourselves safe. Which is why I referred to my riding skill tool box. I've many, many tools I utilize when riding.

Although it may seem counter-intuitive and feel foreign if you've not been raised with it, but lane splitting is safe, and if done correctly, safer than sitting in a lane. Several studies have proved it. I've yet to see a study that says otherwise.

So I see lane splitting as another tool in my skillset that I can deploy when necessary, another option I can opt for to keep me safe. Isn't that a good thing? Aren't more tools and options better for us, even if you choose not to use them?
Having more tools for safety is a good thing. I agree with you. But to just cut in front of people is not a safety issue. It's a laziness and inconsiderate issue.

No law will hold you unlawful for zipping around the vehicle in front of you should you fear being crushed by an oncoming vehicle towards your rear. This is about cutting in front of people because of not wanting to take turns.

I see it like this... a large group of people are walking up a flight of stairs. Everyone takes their turn and waits for the person in front of them to take their step up. It is rude to jostle up between people in order to get in front of the line. Sure, you can say "excuse me, excuse me" and slip in between them. You may even not touch another person doing so. But in my eyes, it is rude, inconsiderate, and puts myself in more danger of bumping in to someone or causing someone, or me, to have an accident. Maybe that person I slide between misses a step because now they are worried about what I'm doing and they fall and break their ankle.

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Personally, I feel like a sitting duck waiting in traffic, dependent that the 89 YO lady with cataracts coming up behind me doesn't suddenly see her maker in a glint off my silver Burgman. Think of how much trust you put in your fellow motorists every time you stop at a light. Your life is dependent on that person's health, eyesight, judgement, mood, vehicle maintenance, driving skills, etc. Sorry, I just don't trust my fellow man to always do it, correctly, every time.
But you don't need a lane-splitting law to get out of the way of an oncoming vehicle that you fear will plow in to you. But, if you are traveling along with a bunch of cars, you all slow down at the same time due to the oncoming stop light or sign. I feel the same fear even if I'm in my car or truck. We all do. But that shouldn't give me the right to plow between them in order to cut the line.
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LS gives you an option. It gives you the power not to have to put your trust in others. You are no longer just sitting at a disadvantage, you're in control and moving forward out of harms way. Bikes have advantages over cars when they are in motion (quickness, maneuverability, braking, averting, etc.), but none when they sit. LS allows you to move, it allows you to utilize a bike's advantages. Sitting does not. It's difficult to describe to people who are uninitiated to the practice, but it really is, or at least can be, safer.

Finally, I'm sorry if it doesn't bring you comfort that bikes may ride differently than cars drive, but I'll choose saftey over comfort every time.
I agree with you in these points Liamjs. I actually feel a bit more able to respond to traffic conditions while riding my scooter then in the car due to the size difference and zippy-ness. But that is also why I try and give myself some room to maneuver if I'm the last person in the stopped line of vehicles. That way if someone is coming up behind me at speed, I can have room to zip around the vehicle in front of me.

But that "fear" should not be an excuse to increase the chance of accidents by riding between vehicles. There may not be studies, but logic says that if you put yourself between vehicles, the chances increase that someone's vehicle will get banged, or someone will try and bang your's. No one rides a perfect line. Cars and bikes weave. Cars can and do hug those lines. (I about got side-swiped by a car yesterday who wanted in my lane. Couldn't imagine how that would have played out should a bike have wanted between us)

I also fear that these laws increase animosity for bikes due to their cutting in line, the increased chance of damage to cars, and the scare factor of finding a bike going past your window when you don't expect it.

This law would also allow lane-splitting within the same lane. So, lane-splitting within single-lane roads?? This would allow passing vehicles who are stopped by passing them either on the shoulder side or on the side of on-coming traffic. That's NUTS!! Or am I reading that wrong?

The law will probably pass. But that doesn't mean it has to be followed. I'll choose to still drive like I'm in a car and take my turn.

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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 01:43 PM
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It's going to get interesting.............
"Open the lane for splitting, HAL"

"Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

"Please move to the right, HAL"

"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."

" Daisy . . d a i s y . . . . . ."
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 02:58 PM
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I will post one last time in this topic. I think this topic will become an "Oil Filter" type of endless back and forth of why or why not's.

I live here and have ridden in the I-405 traffic up here. From 1997 till 2015 was doing 82 miles in this traffic. I can't count on both hands, not enough fingers, how many times I have almost been reamed from the rear when traffic comes to a stop. I was reamed in the rear while in my wifes car when a car 2 cars behind me was plowed by another doing 70 MPH when we stopped abrupt. I was pushed 40 feet forward. So a 4 car pileup. If I were the first one on a motorcycle I would have been GROUND ROUND.

It is very unsafe to be the "SITTING DUCK" at the end of the lane when traffic stops. Been there many times and have passed vehicles in front of me when I feel unsafe by going on the shoulder or split lanes.

This law in my state will NOT REQUIRE anyone to split the lanes. It WILL REQUIRE that it be done in a manner set by law. Once the schooling of all drivers have been done and everyone understands the law then let it happen. All drivers, car/truck/motorcycle/bus, will need a "learning curve" Campaign time frame before the law allows this to happen.

This law will have conditions of when and at what speeds you can do this. Last I read on it, it was for divided hyways, so NO you could not pass on the left into oncoming traffic if there is not a barrier or median. Max speed of splitting is 35 MPH so if traffic is doing 50 in a 70 MPH zone you can not legally pass.

Back in 2008 we got a snow storm in mid April. I rode home on my Burgman. About 20 miles from home traffic came to a stop. For 1 hour I waited in almost the same exact spot, maybe 15 feet of movement. I was freezing so I hit the shoulder and started passing all the stopped cars and trucks. Only 1 car tried to stop me but he was too late and I slid past him with 10 feet to spare. In about 2 miles I passed a cop and waved at him and he waved back. At 6 miles up the road I came up on the accident and there were about 4 State patrol troopers and they let me pass on the shoulder.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 03:15 PM
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The law will probably pass. But that doesn't mean it has to be followed. I'll choose to still drive like I'm in a car and take my turn.
Im not going to argue with you on the relative saftey of LS vs sitting. You're obviously uncomfortable with the notion. And that's fine. I wish you many years of safe riding as you see fit. I never advise LS for those who simply don't want to do it. It isn't safe if you're not comfortable doing it.

But I only ask for the option to do it. You may see it as rude, I see it as easing traffic and providing a safer riding alternative. In the end, the rider is solely responsible for their saftey; They choose whether to ride or not. But given the relative risk MCs undertake, they should have as many safe riding options available to them as possible.
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 03:39 PM
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Yeah, I have been rear ended twice. Not seriously. Once in Barcelona on a rented Honda Scoopy 50 cc scooter. And the second time here at home on the 650. The person behind stopped just AFTER cracking my back panel; but when the light turned green and I went through the intersection and pulled over, that person disappeared. No probs - I made sure to get the plate number before the light turned green. I reported the driver who got stuck with my deductible at repair time and probably some demerits as well.

So when coming to a stopped line-up in traffic, I stop the 650 a MINIMUM of a car length behind the guy ahead. As another vehicle appears in my rear view mirror, I flash my brake lights and only after they've slowed, and almost reached my a$$ end, do I slowly move forward a few feet to accommodate any miscalculation on his/her part. And I am already in motion in case I half to dash into an open space ahead.

In the 3 or 4 car rear-ender pile up mentioned above, I guess I would still be screwed. Sometimes you just won't know when it's coming. God forbid. And God grant y'all some Angelgrace for when it does.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:31 PM
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Only 1 car tried to stop me but he was too late and I slid past him with 10 feet to spare. In about 2 miles I passed a cop and waved at him and he waved back. At 6 miles up the road I came up on the accident and there were about 4 State patrol troopers and they let me pass on the shoulder.
Nice COPS. Support the Blue Lives Matter.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:38 PM
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I don't remember Suring being that big.
I'm from Pulaski actually.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:42 PM
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In all my years of riding and lane filtering I have done in Ca. I have only once heard for my life. That was a guy who Texas plates that took exceptions to me legally filtering at a red light. He proceeded to chase me down. I only escaped by......filtering. I have 3 friends that have been hit from behind. I wound up with 2 broken vertebrae, another, a 1,000,000 mile rider had to give up riding for several years because it caused him vertigo, the third wind up with multiple fractures and is back to riding. If you are not comfortable with lane splitting don't.

These are the guiltiness I use for lane filtering, they are very livable and so far I have found them very safe. http://lanesplittingislegal.com/asse...California.pdf
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 06:53 PM
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These are the guiltiness I use for lane filtering, they are very livable and so far I have found them very safe. http://lanesplittingislegal.com/asse...California.pdf
Me thinks your freudian slip is showing.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 07:05 PM
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I will post one last time in this topic. I think this topic will become an "Oil Filter" type of endless back and forth of why or why not's.
So, Dave, from your position I take it it would be okay to lane split even if using a Fram filter on my darksided bike?

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