WA - HB1157 Lane Splitting 2017 - Page 2 - Suzuki Burgman Forum
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 10:42 AM
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Here, El Jefe, you would provoke anger, resentment and hostility. Maybe even a little road rage. Nobody's going to pull out a gun and shoot you, we're not allowed to have guns, but they might squeeze you out or cut you off. The concept would require a public relations info and education campaign to get it going here if they were to legalize it.
You are absolutely correct. That is why I do not split lanes out of state. It is a social mindset that approves or disapproves lane splitting. Where it is allowed it is just the way it is. Although some think otherwise, not as many people in California think the motorcyclist is getting away with something evil. But maybe more are thinking perhaps I should get a bike. And I would even imagine that somebody from the Great White North would accept lane splitting while visiting a place like Thailand for instance as just the way they do it there. Kind of crazy, but oh well, Isn't this fun Martha!

Rest assured that on my next visit to your fair land I will obey the local laws and stick to my lane, just as I do when I cross the borderline of my golden state into the great beyond.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 11:34 AM
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I think the previous two posts make some good points.


There's something about being in a line (i.e. traffic) that really gets people's goat. And the number one thing that p's people off is someone cutting the line. All logic and reason go out the door when there is a perceived cut.


But lane splitting isn't cutting the line, its creating a whole new line (albeit a small one cars can't fit). And the basic reason why it is safer is that cars don't notice bikes, but they do notice cars beside them and always give the other vehicle some amount of distance between. The bikes just take advantage of that gap. I've had BY FAR more cars cut into my lane when I was sitting in it by myself, than I've had cars cut me off while lane splitting. I've done it for over 27 years without incident.


Now the attitudes of the drivers in any given state, that is the problem. Here in CA, no one even flinches at it anymore and many will give you extra room if they see you. I once had a Smart car in the fast lane and a mini Cooper in the number two lane, both saw me coming and gave me extra room. LOL, I could have drove a semi in between them.


So it works here. Now it helped that we had a public ad campaign a few years ago to let everyone know it was legal, and that is backed up by the DMV tests and handbooks, as well as the CHP giving tickets to drivers who cut off bikers. I can be done. I wish WA luck in getting it passed. It is a wonderful tool to have in one's riding skill kit.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 12:04 PM
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<<<SNIPY>>>

So it works here. Now it helped that we had a public ad campaign a few years ago to let everyone know it was legal, and that is backed up by the DMV tests and handbooks, as well as the CHP giving tickets to drivers who cut off bikers. It can be done. I wish WA luck in getting it passed. It is a wonderful tool to have in one's riding skill kit.
This is true. The state would need to get a Ad campaign out before it comes to law. Make sure that all drivers understand what is coming and the penalties will be for deciding to step outside of the guidelines of the law. Like putting your cars fender or opening your door to block a bikes progress will be fined and if the biker hits you then that will be an Aggravated Assault charge compounded with a road rage charge. We already have a road rage charge of like $450.

Our law will state that we will be able to do it up to a maxumn of 35 MPH and no more than 10 MPH faster than the slow traffic. So if traffic is doing 15 MPH we could split at 25 MPH MAX. We can not legally pass stopped traffic at 35 MPH, but we could pass at 10 MPH.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 04:06 PM
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Our law will state that we will be able to do it up to a maxumn of 35 MPH and no more than 10 MPH faster than the slow traffic. So if traffic is doing 15 MPH we could split at 25 MPH MAX. We can not legally pass stopped traffic at 35 MPH, but we could pass at 10 MPH.


Those are reasonable and safe limits for lane splitting. Ours was 40 MPH, but I heard it might be changed. I don't know. The new law originally said 50 MPH, but then changed so it was up to the CHP and I never saw anything put out. I keep it to 40 though. It's quite manageable and doesn't Pee anyone off. I give lots of waves to those who move over to give room.


Good luck on the vote.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 04:31 PM
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My take.. all vehicles on the road, should be treated the same as the other vehicles on the road (for the most part). They should obey traffic laws the same. If a car is not allowed to drive on the shoulder, no other vehicle should (except emergency vehicles but can't we agree on our context here). There are special lanes created for HOV usage. But that is a entire lane created for that purpose. All vehicles have to have lights, front and rear, signals, and safety protocols. To me, staying between the lines is all part of this. A motocycle is the same as a tri-cycle, is the same as a car, is the same as a truck. Speed limits, stop signs, school zones, and lane designations.

serious question? Who pays when you swipe a car's mirror off? you, or the car that supposedly didn't give you enough space? when you are at a stop, is there laws that says which side of the road you can split? What if you are in the way of a turning vehicle after a stop?

And what I cannot fathom at all, is that this law allows lane splitting within the same lane. I just can't understand how that is "safer" to drive right up next to a vehicle within the same lane. Still can't see how it's safer to drive between vehicles.

Bikes should follow the same laws as trikes which should follow the same laws as cars and trucks.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 08:14 PM
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Thumbs up This a great discussion

Despite my earlier comments there are situations where you can pacify drivers here and that's when nothing ahead is moving; you are in a long line because of railroad lights and barrier. This is an urban situation usually. And, for you, this is a familiar intersection so that you know the configuration of the traffic variables on the other side of the passing train.

You just pull out of line and putt putt to the front. But it does depend on your attitude - arrogant, snooty and special will definitely work against you. The trick is - once the barrier arms go up and the lights and bells stop - the trick is to let the lead car go first and pull in behind him with your indicator going (or hand signaling as you are only directing this info to the guy immediately behind), showing the proper respect, as opposed to blasting off like your flipping the bird to all those poor suckers you left behind you. This too is about building the proper image to cagers for people on scooters as was previously mentioned.
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 08:28 PM
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My take.. all vehicles on the road, should be treated the same as the other vehicles on the road (for the most part). They should obey traffic laws the same. If a car is not allowed to drive on the shoulder, no other vehicle should (except emergency vehicles but can't we agree on our context here). There are special lanes created for HOV usage. But that is a entire lane created for that purpose. All vehicles have to have lights, front and rear, signals, and safety protocols. To me, staying between the lines is all part of this. A motocycle is the same as a tri-cycle, is the same as a car, is the same as a truck. Speed limits, stop signs, school zones, and lane designations.

serious question? Who pays when you swipe a car's mirror off? you, or the car that supposedly didn't give you enough space? when you are at a stop, is there laws that says which side of the road you can split? What if you are in the way of a turning vehicle after a stop?

And what I cannot fathom at all, is that this law allows lane splitting within the same lane. I just can't understand how that is "safer" to drive right up next to a vehicle within the same lane. Still can't see how it's safer to drive between vehicles.

Bikes should follow the same laws as trikes which should follow the same laws as cars and trucks.
Point well taken, but the problem is we're not the same. Bikes are a fraction of the size of cars, so they just don't see us. What's the number one rule of motorcycling? Nobody sees you. Don't ever assume the cars do. Pair that fact with our vulnerability and we need an advantage cars don't have, lane splitting provides an extra tool we can utilize to make things even on the road.

My assumption when I ride is that I'm invisible and I ride as such. At stop lights, I go up to the front and get ahead of the traffic when it turns green. Nothing crazy or hyper speed, just ahead. When traffic backs up, I lane split knowing the cars don't see me, but they do see the car beside them. When traffic quickens, I find a nice open spot and cruise in my own lane. My goal is to have as little metal around me for as breif a time period as possible. I'm never beside a car for more than a second or so. Most cars just don't have enough time to do anything to me, at least not enough time that they wouldn't damage their own vehicle with the one beside them.

It's not for everyone. And lane splitting is purely an option. If you don't want to do it, don't. But for those of us with the skillset, why deny it? After all, we're the only ones who'd get hurt if something goes amiss. Anyone who believes in personal rights and responsibilities should be behind it, just like the arguments against helmet laws.
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-27-2017, 09:54 PM
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Yes, this is a great discussion and I like that this is a discussion. I know that many countries and peoples do the lane splitting.

I don't think this should be a focus on the size of a vehicle. Bicycles have to follow the rules of the road just like cars. they have to signal their turns, and stop at lights\stop signs. So for me, ....... wait for it...... size doesn't matter.

If we are invisible, and I greatly agree with you (thus the reason I so appreciate being taught to be a defensive driver before really learning how to drive) that we are invisible. But, to drive between cars, or beside them in the same lane, while being invisible, seems to me to open one's self up to being in greater danger.

Are we not taught as cyclists where and how to operate our bikes in order to be more visible to cars\trucks? Don't drive on the far right side of a lane because drivers can't see someone there as easy as it is if you are right behind the driver (left side of lane).

As a driver, I look directly behind me and to my side before I decide to change lanes. If a bike was just starting to drive up right beside me, I'd never see them and not expect them there.

And like someone else said earlier here, sorry don't remember, but it is a matter of how we are all brought up and our training. If I lived and was trained in an area where lane splitting was the norm, and I grew up seeing that and knowing it could happen at any moment, then maybe I'd feel different.

Growing up as I did knowing that all vehicles no matter the number of wheels have to operate the same way, brings with it comfort, an expectation of how a bike will operate around me.

I agree, massive education would need to take place and.. time.

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 10:18 AM
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^ i once heard bicyclists described as "the most suicidal health nuts you'll ever meet". Lol. As a former one, I'd have to agree. I read that more people are killed bicycling than any other sport. So size doesn't matter? Volvo vs a 10 speed in a crash, who wins? Saying we're all the same out on the road is just not true.

You mentioned that we, as motorcyclist, are taught to position ourselves so we are most visible to cars/trucks. True. This is one method, one tool as it were, we use to keep ourselves safe. Which is why I referred to my riding skill tool box. I've many, many tools I utilize when riding.

Although it may seem counter-intuitive and feel foreign if you've not been raised with it, but lane splitting is safe, and if done correctly, safer than sitting in a lane. Several studies have proved it. I've yet to see a study that says otherwise.

So I see lane splitting as another tool in my skillset that I can deploy when necessary, another option I can opt for to keep me safe. Isn't that a good thing? Aren't more tools and options better for us, even if you choose not to use them?

Personally, I feel like a sitting duck waiting in traffic, dependent that the 89 YO lady with cataracts coming up behind me doesn't suddenly see her maker in a glint off my silver Burgman. Think of how much trust you put in your fellow motorists every time you stop at a light. Your life is dependent on that person's health, eyesight, judgement, mood, vehicle maintenance, driving skills, etc. Sorry, I just don't trust my fellow man to always do it, correctly, every time.

LS gives you an option. It gives you the power not to have to put your trust in others. You are no longer just sitting at a disadvantage, you're in control and moving forward out of harms way. Bikes have advantages over cars when they are in motion (quickness, maneuverability, braking, averting, etc.), but none when they sit. LS allows you to move, it allows you to utilize a bike's advantages to avoid problems. Sitting does not. It's difficult to describe to people who are uninitiated to the practice, but it really is, or at least can be, safer.

Finally, I'm sorry if it doesn't bring you comfort that bikes may ride differently than cars drive, but I'll choose saftey over comfort every time.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 10:43 AM
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"Hey 3452HJR7LO980051 this here's 998LKCRM31900 twelve cars back. You got a meat bag on a two wheeler commin' up on yer right. Might want to give 'em some lane."
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